Questions DM book 1, 2 ( closed )

Here, you can discuss all grammar-related topics. If you are not sure in which subforum you should post your question, post it anyway and the moderators will move it to the right place.
Post Reply
luvdutch
Waardevol lid
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2015 2:59 am
Country of residence: China
Mother tongue: Mandarin

Questions DM book 1, 2 ( closed )

Post by luvdutch » Fri Sep 18, 2015 3:20 am

Hi, thank you for all your help from time to time. well here the book 2 journey is started. i would post some questions here occasionally. just to save some forum space, i i will put up all the questions in one thread. So if there is a new question, i will modify the title of this thread as 'new' or 'updated'. please come and see. many many thanks :!:

1, Nederlanders die niet al te snel spreken, kunt u vrij goed verstaan. (Question: is 'al te snel' fixed expression? what does it mean? can you say 'al te langzaam', 'al te vroeg'.....?)

2, U heeft zich opgegeven voor een vervolgcursus. ( question: what does it mean? you have give yourself up for a following course? it does not sound correct?)

3, Wij kunnen u meedelen dat u geplaatst bent in de cursus....(question: does 'meedelen' here mean communicate or inform?)

4, Wat zijn het voor mensen? ( question: what on earth does this sentence mean? is there a structure in it?)

5, Hoe wordt het land geregeerd? Hoe houden ze het droog? (question: 'ze' here refers to the dutch people, but keep it dry? meaning?)

6, De teksten bieden mogelijkheden tot discussie met de andere cursisten. (question: is the first 'tot' attached to the word 'bieden'?)

7, Wij wijzen u erop dat het een intensieve cursus is. (question: 'wijzen ...op' here means 'point to "?)

thx
Last edited by luvdutch on Sat Feb 27, 2016 3:02 am, edited 22 times in total.

ngonyama
Superlid
Posts: 1299
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:15 am
Country of residence: United States
Mother tongue: Dutch (Netherlands)
Second language: English
Third language: German
Fourth language: French
Fifth, sixth, seventh, ..., languages: Russisch, Xhosa

Re: questions from book 2

Post by ngonyama » Fri Sep 18, 2015 4:41 am

luvdutch wrote:Hi, thank you for all your help from time to time. well here the book 2 journey is started. i would post some questions here occasionally. just to save some forum space, i i will put up all the questions in one post. So if there is a new question, i will modify the title of this post as 'new' or 'updated'. please come and see. many many thanks :!:

1, Nederlanders die niet al te snel spreken, kunt u vrij goed verstaan. (Question: is 'al te snel' fixed expression? sort of: it means something like: a pretty good speed, but not too fast what does it mean? can you say 'al te langzaam', 'al te vroeg'.....yes?)

2, U heeft zich opgegeven voor een vervolgcursus. ( question: what does it mean? you have give yourself up for a following course? it does not sound correct?it means: to register, to enter your name on a list, to announce your desire to participate)

3, Wij kunnen u meedelen dat u geplaatst bent in de cursus....(question: does 'meedelen' here mean communicate or inform?to inform )

4, Wat zijn het voor mensen? ( question: what on earth does this sentence mean? is there a structure in it?wat voor ... means what kind of ...: What kind of people are they)

5, Hoe wordt het land geregeerd? Hoe houden ze het droog? (question: 'ze' here refers to the dutch people, but keep it dry? meaning? That is hard to say without more context. In Holland it can literally mean: to keep the country dry, because half of the land is under sea level and needs to be protected from flooding. But it also has more symbolic meanings: how do they keep it going, how do they ensure a good situation. The expression can even have sexual connotations but let's not go there.)

6, De teksten bieden mogelijkheden tot discussie met de andere cursisten. (question: is the first 'tot' attached to the word 'bieden'? actually more to the word moegelijkheden)

7, Wij wijzen u erop dat het een intensieve cursus is. (question: 'wijzen ...op' here means 'point to "?more: point out to you, make you aware of something)

thx

luvdutch
Waardevol lid
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2015 2:59 am
Country of residence: China
Mother tongue: Mandarin

Re: questions from book 2

Post by luvdutch » Fri Sep 18, 2015 1:04 pm

ngonyama wrote:
luvdutch wrote:Hi, thank you for all your help from time to time. well here the book 2 journey is started. i would post some questions here occasionally. just to save some forum space, i i will put up all the questions in one post. So if there is a new question, i will modify the title of this post as 'new' or 'updated'. please come and see. many many thanks :!:

1, Nederlanders die niet al te snel spreken, kunt u vrij goed verstaan. (Question: is 'al te snel' fixed expression? sort of: it means something like: a pretty good speed, but not too fast what does it mean? can you say 'al te langzaam', 'al te vroeg'.....yes?)

2, U heeft zich opgegeven voor een vervolgcursus. ( question: what does it mean? you have give yourself up for a following course? it does not sound correct?it means: to register, to enter your name on a list, to announce your desire to participate)

3, Wij kunnen u meedelen dat u geplaatst bent in de cursus....(question: does 'meedelen' here mean communicate or inform?to inform )

4, Wat zijn het voor mensen? ( question: what on earth does this sentence mean? is there a structure in it?wat voor ... means what kind of ...: What kind of people are they)

5, Hoe wordt het land geregeerd? Hoe houden ze het droog? (question: 'ze' here refers to the dutch people, but keep it dry? meaning? That is hard to say without more context. In Holland it can literally mean: to keep the country dry, because half of the land is under sea level and needs to be protected from flooding. But it also has more symbolic meanings: how do they keep it going, how do they ensure a good situation. The expression can even have sexual connotations but let's not go there.)

6, De teksten bieden mogelijkheden tot discussie met de andere cursisten. (question: is the first 'tot' attached to the word 'bieden'? actually more to the word moegelijkheden)

7, Wij wijzen u erop dat het een intensieve cursus is. (question: 'wijzen ...op' here means 'point to "?more: point out to you, make you aware of something)

thx
many thanks, and um, about question 6 , the word 'tot'. Is it also possible to say -----De teksten bieden mogelijkheden met discussie met de andere cursisten. Thinking in the English way the word tot has the meaning of 'till/up to'. if it is translated as the texts offer possibilities till discussion. it is a bit hard to imagine? is this the dutch way of speaking?

Dolo
Superlid
Posts: 182
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2014 9:47 pm
Country of residence: Poland
Mother tongue: Polish
Second language: English
Third language: Dutch
Gender: Male

Re: Questions from Book 2 (updated)

Post by Dolo » Fri Sep 18, 2015 1:56 pm

Is it also possible to say -----De teksten bieden mogelijkheden met discussie met de andere cursisten
I think "De teksten bieden mogelijkheden voor discussie met de andere cursisten" would work quite well.

ngonyama
Superlid
Posts: 1299
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:15 am
Country of residence: United States
Mother tongue: Dutch (Netherlands)
Second language: English
Third language: German
Fourth language: French
Fifth, sixth, seventh, ..., languages: Russisch, Xhosa

Re: Questions from Book 2 (updated)

Post by ngonyama » Fri Sep 18, 2015 2:16 pm

I don't quite understand the problem. English does not use "with" here either. In Dutch two constructions are possible

de mogelijkheid tot een gesprek (whatever ...)

or

de mogelijkheidheid daarover (whatever ....) te spreken

In the last case you are using a verb, an extended infinitive (te+ ), in the first case a noun.

In English the verbal construction is very similar:

the possibility to speak about that (whatever ...)

I don't think English uses the first construction much. Is that the problem?

In German both constructions are possible, but both use the same preposition "zu". It is cognate to Du "te/tot" and Eng "to".

Etymologically tot came from toe+te, http://www.etymologiebank.nl/trefwoord/tot so it is essentially a redoubled/strengthened form of Eng "to" or Germ "zu". The "toe" part also adds an element of direction / movement, that simple "te" lacks. The latter is just locative.

tot = toe+te ----> point
te= .point

luvdutch
Waardevol lid
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2015 2:59 am
Country of residence: China
Mother tongue: Mandarin

Re: Questions from Book 2 (updated)

Post by luvdutch » Sat Sep 19, 2015 12:42 am

Dolo wrote:
Is it also possible to say -----De teksten bieden mogelijkheden met discussie met de andere cursisten
I think "De teksten bieden mogelijkheden voor discussie met de andere cursisten" would work quite well.
yes, that's also what seems right in English. I thought english people might say it like" 1, That offers a possibility of something for somebody to do something. 2,That offers a possibility with something( for somebody to do something).

Note that sentence 2 had a problem: In fact 'with' is more commonly used when one says 'that offers somebody with something to do something.'

I am not sure about sentence 2 but I am sure that the first sentence is absolutely correct in English.
Last edited by luvdutch on Sat Sep 19, 2015 1:39 am, edited 4 times in total.

luvdutch
Waardevol lid
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2015 2:59 am
Country of residence: China
Mother tongue: Mandarin

Re: Questions from Book 2 (updated)

Post by luvdutch » Sat Sep 19, 2015 12:51 am

ngonyama wrote:I don't quite understand the problem. English does not use "with" here either. In Dutch two constructions are possible

de mogelijkheid tot een gesprek (whatever ...)

or

de mogelijkheidheid daarover (whatever ....) te spreken

In the last case you are using a verb, an extended infinitive (te+ ), in the first case a noun.

In English the verbal construction is very similar:

the possibility to speak about that (whatever ...)

I don't think English uses the first construction much. Is that the problem?

In German both constructions are possible, but both use the same preposition "zu". It is cognate to Du "te/tot" and Eng "to".

Etymologically tot came from toe+te, http://www.etymologiebank.nl/trefwoord/tot so it is essentially a redoubled/strengthened form of Eng "to" or Germ "zu". The "toe" part also adds an element of direction / movement, that simple "te" lacks. The latter is just locative.

tot = toe+te ----> point
te= .point

ah! i see! never knew 'tot' comes from 'toe+te'! Thank you for your explanations. I think the problem occurred in the focus of the word. I paid too much attention to the word 'bieden'. In fact here I should know that 'mogelijkheid + tot' is what needs to be looked at. The structures you provided are very useful. Thank you ngonyama.

luvdutch
Waardevol lid
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2015 2:59 am
Country of residence: China
Mother tongue: Mandarin

Re: Questions from Book 2

Post by luvdutch » Wed Sep 23, 2015 2:11 am

Hi how are ya :) 'les 2' finished, but with only one question:

------Ik zei dat ik helemaal niet kon zeilen. Dat doet er niet toe, zeiden ze. Als je maar kunt zwemmen!---------


question: is the underlined 'dat' referring to 'dat ding' with 'ding' actually omitted? also the sentence 'dat doet er niet toe'. what's the good translation of that? can it be used as a reply in multiple occasions?

ngonyama
Superlid
Posts: 1299
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:15 am
Country of residence: United States
Mother tongue: Dutch (Netherlands)
Second language: English
Third language: German
Fourth language: French
Fifth, sixth, seventh, ..., languages: Russisch, Xhosa

Re: Questions from Book 2

Post by ngonyama » Wed Sep 23, 2015 3:32 am

luvdutch wrote:Hi how are ya :) 'les 2' finished, but with only one question:

------Ik zei dat ik helemaal niet kon zeilen. Dat doet er niet toe, zeiden ze. Als je maar kunt zwemmen!---------


question: is the underlined 'dat' referring to 'dat ding' with 'ding' actually omitted?

You could look at it that way. Better would be perhaps: 'dat feit': the fact that he could not sail at all. But demonstrative pronouns are often used on their own. Both in English and in Dutch "that" and "dat" are used that way.:

I said that I could not sail at all. That doesn't matter, they said. As long as you can swim!...



also the sentence 'dat doet er niet toe'. what's the good translation of that? can it be used as a reply in multiple occasions?

It can, but then often the word allemaal is added:

Dat doet er allemaal niet toe.
All that does not matter.

luvdutch
Waardevol lid
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2015 2:59 am
Country of residence: China
Mother tongue: Mandarin

Re: Questions from Book 2

Post by luvdutch » Wed Sep 23, 2015 10:07 am

THANK YOU ngonyama! Always learnt something more from your replies. 8)

luvdutch
Waardevol lid
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2015 2:59 am
Country of residence: China
Mother tongue: Mandarin

Re: Questions from Book 2

Post by luvdutch » Thu Sep 24, 2015 3:08 am

Les 3

text: Vanwege de groei van de bevolking, maar ook ten behoeve van het goederenvervoer.

question: i have searched on internet that 'behoeve' is a subjunctive form, so it indicates that this is a hypothesis(means: it could be that this is to the need of the goods-transportation ....). but what i also saw on the internet that there is the use of 'ten behoefte van'. I suppose that this indicates the fact------------>(surely) to the need of....

Is that right?

ngonyama
Superlid
Posts: 1299
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:15 am
Country of residence: United States
Mother tongue: Dutch (Netherlands)
Second language: English
Third language: German
Fourth language: French
Fifth, sixth, seventh, ..., languages: Russisch, Xhosa

Re: Questions from Book 2

Post by ngonyama » Thu Sep 24, 2015 4:23 am

luvdutch wrote:Les 3

text: Vanwege de groei van de bevolking, maar ook ten behoeve van het goederenvervoer.

question: i have searched on internet that 'behoeve' is a subjunctive form,

No, it is a noun in old fossil dative form, from a time that Dutch still had case endings like German still does. Whenever you see the words "ten" or "ter" you'd have that. Ten is a contraction of the preposition "te" with the dative masculine or neuter form of the article: "den". The feminine used to be "der" and that is what "ter" is from. This usuage of "te" is no longer productive, but there is a lot of fossil expressions. The masc/neuter noun itself usually gets -e in the dative too and adjectives had -en

Ten huize van - at the house of (te den huize = te + (dative of het huis)
Ten anderen male - once again (te + (dative of ander maal)
Ten bate van - in support of (te + (dative of de baat)
etc.

"Ten behoeve van X" means something like: in order to benefit/promote X. The noun is "het behoef" but that was already extinct in the 19th century http://gtb.inl.nl/iWDB/search?actie=art ... id=M006333

The feminine is still somewhat productive with nouns of action ending in -ing
Ter verzekering
Ter verhoging
etc.

There are other endings too: -tie, -heid, -ij and a few more


so it indicates that this is a hypothesis(means: it could be that this is to the need of the goods-transportation ....). but what i also saw on the internet that there is the use of 'ten behoefte van'. I suppose that this indicates the fact------------>(surely) to the need of....

Is that right?

ngonyama
Superlid
Posts: 1299
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:15 am
Country of residence: United States
Mother tongue: Dutch (Netherlands)
Second language: English
Third language: German
Fourth language: French
Fifth, sixth, seventh, ..., languages: Russisch, Xhosa

Re: Questions from Book 2 (NEW)

Post by ngonyama » Thu Sep 24, 2015 4:31 am


luvdutch
Waardevol lid
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2015 2:59 am
Country of residence: China
Mother tongue: Mandarin

Re: Questions from Book 2 (NEW)

Post by luvdutch » Thu Sep 24, 2015 3:09 pm

ngonyama wrote:Perhaps this may help: https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Dutch/Lesson_15
Thank you for your thorough explanation ngonyama. It is very delightful to know how the dutch words evolved. By the way the lessons from wikibooks are amazing! surely worth a read! Have a good day!

luvdutch
Waardevol lid
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2015 2:59 am
Country of residence: China
Mother tongue: Mandarin

Re: Questions from Book 2

Post by luvdutch » Sat Sep 26, 2015 3:38 am

LES 4 EN 5:

1, "kom eens langs!", zeiden onze vrienden vaak. Maar het kwam er steeds niet van. ( Question: er+van= from/of + it/them...but what does 'er' refer to and 'het' refer to? )

2, Mogen we buiten spelen? ----"Vooruit dan maar." ( Question: if Vooruit is already the meaning of 'alright! fine!". Could it be used alone instead of adding " dan maar"?)

3, Je moet met de teksten aan het werk. ( Question: aan het= continuous in dutch. Not sure if this aspect should be shown in this sentence? also is the translation of this sentence: " You have to be working on your texts." or " You have to be working with your texts (in practice).")

4, Nou en of! ( Question: nou en of means of course but 'nou en' = so what. can it be used alone as a reply?_____b.v.: Jij ging zonder je vriendinnetje? --Nou en ! )

5, Ga je gang! ( Question: is this translated as 'go your (own) way!' ?)

Post Reply