Questions DM book 1, 2 ( closed )

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Re: Q&A Corner

Post by BrutallyFrank » Fri Dec 18, 2015 5:55 pm

Dolo wrote:Excuse me 'luvdutch', can I post here some questions as well? ;D I don't want to make a new thread:

Vrouw (38) krijgt werkstraf voor mishandeling 13-jarig meisje

Een 38-jarige vrouw uit Hoogeveen is vrijdag veroordeeld tot een werkstraf van tachtig uur wegens het mishandelen van een 13-jarig meisje.


Is there any strict rule for the omission of "van"? In the first sentence it seems to be dropped after a noun transformed from a verb but in the second one it is present in the very same enviroment. Does it have anything to do with the article "een"?
It's mostly the case with headlines to drop the word 'van' like that. I don't think there's any rule for that because spoken and written Dutch wouldn't omit it normally.
I guess that leaving 'van' out even adds to the drama of the headline ...
"Moenie worrie nie, alles sal reg kom" (maar hy het nie gesê wanneer nie!)

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Re: Q&A Corner

Post by luvdutch » Sun Dec 20, 2015 3:35 am

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Last edited by luvdutch on Sun Dec 20, 2015 4:11 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Q&A Corner

Post by luvdutch » Sun Dec 20, 2015 4:01 am

Hi Ngonyama , hoe gaat het met jou? T' is zo koud here.


Een voor een sluiten de provincies zich aan, en in 1581 vormen zij de Republiek der Verenigde Nederlanden.

Question: is 'een voor een' equivalent to the English 'one by one' or 'one after another'?
The word 'aansluiten' is explained in wiktionary as 'connect' and 'install'. but i heard once a woman said in a hair-salon, something like' je mag aansluiten', pointing to the chairs. Why did not she say something more understandable as ' je mag even wachten'?

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Al die tijd behouden de Oranjes invloed. Als het land een koninkrijk wordt, in 1815, wordt een Oranje koning. En zo is het nog. We bevinden ons in het koninkrijk der Nederlanden, met sinds 1980 aan het hoofd: Beatrix van Oranje-Nassau.

Question: what does ' en zo is het nog' mean? can 'en nog' be used to link the sentences?

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

De Oosterscheldedam, is een halfopen dam. Volledige afsluiting zou op den duur te schadelijk zijn voor het milieu.

Question: what is 'op den duur' ?

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Once I heard in a train the driver announced the name of the next stop: he said' Delft' ( 'L' sounds like 'R' in dutch word 'merk') but i also heard people say delft (L sounds same like L from word 'als')

so is that just a way of speaking habit? but what about 'melk' and 'merk' ? why people say 'melk' ('L' exactly same like 'R' from 'merk') isn't that a good chance to distinguish 'melk' from 'merk'?)

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Re: Q&A Corner

Post by luvdutch » Sun Dec 20, 2015 4:12 am

Dolo, you may post any question here, be my guest! :-D

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Re: Q&A Corner

Post by ngonyama » Sun Dec 20, 2015 5:42 pm

luvdutch wrote:Hi Ngonyama , hoe gaat het met jou? T' is zo koud here.


Een voor een sluiten de provincies zich aan, en in 1581 vormen zij de Republiek der Verenigde Nederlanden.

Question: is 'een voor een' equivalent to the English 'one by one' or 'one after another'?

Either

The word 'aansluiten' is explained in wiktionary as 'connect' and 'install'. but i heard once a woman said in a hair-salon, something like' je mag aansluiten', pointing to the chairs. Why did not she say something more understandable as ' je mag even wachten'?

Probably she meant "you can join the queue (at its end)"

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Al die tijd behouden de Oranjes invloed. Als het land een koninkrijk wordt, in 1815, wordt een Oranje koning. En zo is het nog. We bevinden ons in het koninkrijk der Nederlanden, met sinds 1980 aan het hoofd: Beatrix van Oranje-Nassau.

Question: what does ' en zo is het nog' mean? can 'en nog' be used to link the sentences?
It means: it is still that way. nog=still zo=that way. You could alter the word order and say "en nog is het zo"
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

De Oosterscheldedam, is een halfopen dam. Volledige afsluiting zou op den duur te schadelijk zijn voor het milieu.

Question: what is 'op den duur' ?
On the long term
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Once I heard in a train the driver announced the name of the next stop: he said' Delft' ( 'L' sounds like 'R' in dutch word 'merk') but i also heard people say delft (L sounds same like L from word 'als')

so is that just a way of speaking habit? but what about 'melk' and 'merk' ? why people say 'melk' ('L' exactly same like 'R' from 'merk') isn't that a good chance to distinguish 'melk' from 'merk'?)
They are supposed to be two different sounds, but in the last few decades the R sound has been undergoing a lot of changes. I am old-fashioned. My R is still rroling, but there are a bunch of different varieties of R now. But I have never heard people pronounce an L like an R.

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Re: Q&A Corner

Post by luvdutch » Mon Dec 21, 2015 1:08 am

thank you! want to ask something further.

De Oosterscheldedam, is een halfopen dam. Volledige afsluiting zou op den duur te schadelijk zijn voor het milieu.

Question: what is 'op den duur' ?
On the long term
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

is tis word 'te' attached to the use of 'zou' or 'op den duur'? ( I heard people say without 'te' in sentence like" dat zou fijn zijn", so is the use of 'te' here above is with 'op den duur'?)

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Re: Q&A Corner

Post by ngonyama » Tue Dec 22, 2015 12:15 am

luvdutch wrote:thank you! want to ask something further.

De Oosterscheldedam, is een halfopen dam. Volledige afsluiting zou op den duur te schadelijk zijn voor het milieu.

Question: what is 'op den duur' ?
On the long term
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

is tis word 'te' attached to the use of 'zou' or 'op den duur'? ( I heard people say without 'te' in sentence like" dat zou fijn zijn", so is the use of 'te' here above is with 'op den duur'?)

Neither. It is attached to schadelijk: 'te schadelijk' = "too harmful", "more harmful than can be tolerated:

Complete closure would be too harmful for the environment in the long run.


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Re: Q&A Corner

Post by luvdutch » Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:34 am

ah, thank you :)

1, De grachtenhuizen zijn destijds gebouwd voor de kooplui.

Question: Can the word 'toen' replace the word 'destijds' here? (are they synonyms?) and is destijds more formal in quality than 'toen'?


2, Op zolder doen ze de was, en er staan ook nog twee pc's. Ruimte genoeg!

Question: Normally we can say ' Er is genoeg ruimte.' 'De kamer is ruim genoeg!'
Is there anything to do with the use of exclamation, so the places of Ruimte genoeg changed? if so, thats a fixed expression? for example: (when someone is full, he says 'koekjes genoeg!'. and when someone is tired of works, he says' Werk genoeg' ?

3, Ga dan naar de gatentekst. Het is vervelend om hem tijdens de les met de groep in te vullen. Maar daar is hij ook niet bedoeld!

Question: can the word 'die' replace all the underlined words?

4, Tien tegen één dat je het probleem dan kunt oplossen.

Question: what does 'tien tegen één' mean? 90%? = nine times out of ten?
if so, 'tien tegen vier' = 6 times out of 10 = 60%?

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Re: Q&A Corner

Post by ngonyama » Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:41 am

luvdutch wrote:ah, thank you :)

1, De grachtenhuizen zijn destijds gebouwd voor de kooplui.

Question: Can the word 'toen' replace the word 'destijds' here? (are they synonyms?) and is destijds more formal in quality than 'toen'?
Hmm. more or less, yes, on both questions. But destijds usually refers more to a more remote time frame, including the fact that things were probably a little different back then

2, Op zolder doen ze de was, en er staan ook nog twee pc's. Ruimte genoeg!

Question: Normally we can say ' Er is genoeg ruimte.' 'De kamer is ruim genoeg!'
Is there anything to do with the use of exclamation, so the places of Ruimte genoeg changed? if so, thats a fixed expression? for example: (when someone is full, he says 'koekjes genoeg!'. and when someone is tired of works, he says' Werk genoeg' ?
Er is ruimte genoeg is also quite common. Genoeg is originally an adverb. It tends to get used as adjective, but that is secondary. E.g. it does not take -e.
3, Ga dan naar de gatentekst. Het is vervelend om hem tijdens de les met de groep in te vullen. Maar daar is hij ook niet bedoeld!

Question: can the word 'die' replace all the underlined words?
Yes. Although doing both would be stylistically pretty awkward
4, Tien tegen één dat je het probleem dan kunt oplossen.

Question: what does 'tien tegen één' mean? 90%? = nine times out of ten?
if so, 'tien tegen vier' = 6 times out of 10 = 60%?
It corresponds to English "the odds are ten to one", used in betting: you pay one yuan and you get ten yuan back if you are right. In other words you are betting on something very unlikely

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Re: Q&A Corner

Post by Dolo » Wed Jan 13, 2016 10:16 am

Luvdutch hasn't been around here lately, but I'm gonna replace him with my question :D

Een chirurg in de Russische stad Belgorod heeft een 57-jarige patiënt doodgeslagen die een verpleegkundige had geschopt.

The regular construction of the "Voltooid verleden tijd" type of sentence is that you have a "Onvoltooid verleden tijd" from of the verb ('sloeg' in this case) and then the second part is put in the "Voltooid verleden tijd" form ('had geschopt'). The sentence I quoted is taken from an article in De Telegraaf I read yesterday and it seems to be a weird mixture of the 'Voltooid tegenwoordige tijd' and 'Voltooid verleden tijd'. Can you really form such constructions and is it correct to do so?

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Re: Q&A Corner

Post by ngonyama » Wed Jan 13, 2016 10:45 pm

Dolo wrote:Luvdutch hasn't been around here lately, but I'm gonna replace him with my question :D

Een chirurg in de Russische stad Belgorod heeft een 57-jarige patiënt doodgeslagen die een verpleegkundige had geschopt.

The regular construction of the "Voltooid verleden tijd" type of sentence is that you have a "Onvoltooid verleden tijd" from of the verb ('sloeg' in this case) and then the second part is put in the "Voltooid verleden tijd" form ('had geschopt'). The sentence I quoted is taken from an article in De Telegraaf I read yesterday and it seems to be a weird mixture of the 'Voltooid tegenwoordige tijd' and 'Voltooid verleden tijd'. Can you really form such constructions and is it correct to do so?
Yes it is Dolo, because there are two stories in one, at three different timeframes, say:

10 april patiënt schopt verpleegkundige
20 april chirurg staat patiënt dood
13 januari Telegraaf writes about it

The sentence is in present perfect tense "heeft doodgeslagen" because it was complete (perfected: the patient is dead) on 20 april, but it is only reported now on 13 januari. So the paper reports its current status (present) as completed (perfect).

The kicking incident is even older and was already finished and done before 20 april, thus it is in the past perfect tense.


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Re: Q&A Corner

Post by Dolo » Wed Jan 13, 2016 11:26 pm

Thank you for your explanation ngonyama. But, all things considered, saying:


Een chirurg in de Russische stad Belgorod sloeg een 57-jarige patiënt dood die een verpleegkundige had geschopt.


wouldn't be wrong in this particular case?

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Re: Q&A Corner

Post by BrutallyFrank » Thu Jan 14, 2016 7:19 am

Even though it's not the most beautiful sentence, the sentence is correct.
"Moenie worrie nie, alles sal reg kom" (maar hy het nie gesê wanneer nie!)

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Re: Q&A Corner

Post by ngonyama » Thu Jan 14, 2016 6:33 pm

I agree with Frank. I would have expected "sloeg" in a sentence like

Een chirurg in de Russische stad Belgorod sloeg een 57-jarige patiënt dood, toen hij hoorde dat die een verpleegkundige had geschopt.

In that case you are not talking about the fact that the patient was guilty of something. You are narrating a sequence of events that took place in the past.

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Re: Q&A Corner

Post by luvdutch » Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:27 am

Hi ngonyama and dolo, how are you? Yes it's been a while, but i finished the book 2 eventually. I must say the more you learn, the happier you get. i finally came to the following questions from book 2.
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L19

(background: the woman is talking with her friend about the wedding)

--Dus binnenkort heet je anders? Dat wordt wennen.
--Wees maar niet bang, ik hou mijn eigen achternaam.

QUESTION: wennen looks like a verb but the verb after the word ' worden', shouldn't it be gewend? what does it mean here?

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L26

(background: people talking about EU and USA)

Ook is er geen sprake van een gezamenlijk militair optreden, laat staan van een Europees leger.

QUESTION: it is explained that 'laat staan' here means 'en helemaal niet'. but english has a similar one 'let alone'. can 'let alone' be used as the translation here?

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L33

Dat staat mij voor de geest=dat meen ik mij te herinneren

QUESTIONS: what is a translation of this two sentences? it looks like they mean: that's still vivid in my mind=i remember that very well?


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L35

Het is langzamerhand normaal om geregeld van werk en van werkgever te wisselen.

QUESTION: what does it mean?


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L39
(background: someone writing a letter)

1, Denis is tot over haar oren verliefd. Als ze niet voor de spiegel staat, hangt ze om de hals van haar nieuwe held. Of ze zit vaag voor zich uit te staren.

QUESTION: what do the underlined parts mean?


2, P.S. Mijn adres blijft voorlopig hetzelfde. Laat je nog wat van je horen?

QUESTION: isn't it logic that one should say ' let me hear more from you again'. but here the book used a word 'je'. why?


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L40

Mocht blijken dat een en ander niet volgens plan verloopt, dan is het einde verhaal.

QUESTION: Is this sentence omitting something? if so, what is it? when to use ''mocht blijken'.

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ALVAST BEDANKT! :-D

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