Questions DM book 1, 2 ( closed )

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ngonyama
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Re: Q&A Corner

Post by ngonyama » Sat Jan 16, 2016 3:44 pm

luvdutch wrote:Hi ngonyama and dolo, how are you? Yes it's been a while, but i finished the book 2 eventually. I must say the more you learn, the happier you get. i finally came to the following questions from book 2.
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L19

(background: the woman is talking with her friend about the wedding)

--Dus binnenkort heet je anders? Dat wordt wennen.
--Wees maar niet bang, ik hou mijn eigen achternaam.

QUESTION: wennen looks like a verb but the verb after the word ' worden', shouldn't it be gewend? what does it mean here?

Yes, that is an odd expression... The meaning is: we will have to get used to it. I suppose it might come from expressions like "het wordt donker" where worden is a copula: it is becoming dark. So worden is not the auxiliary for the passive here. Neither is wennen really a verb. Every verb can be used as a neuter noun. In this case meaning: habituating, getting used to. So the sentence means something like: the focus is becoming the habituation process.

Often this expression is followed by the word 'geblazen'. : Dat wordt vechten geblazen. I think it comes from the army: There is going to be a trumpet call announcing that we have to fight. In that case the word vechten means the signal "fight!".



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
L26

(background: people talking about EU and USA)

Ook is er geen sprake van een gezamenlijk militair optreden, laat staan van een Europees leger.

QUESTION: it is explained that 'laat staan' here means 'en helemaal niet'. but english has a similar one 'let alone'. can 'let alone' be used as the translation here?
Yes. It literally means: leave that standing there, don't even touch it.
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L33

Dat staat mij voor de geest=dat meen ik mij te herinneren

QUESTIONS: what is a translation of this two sentences? it looks like they mean: that's still vivid in my mind=i remember that very well?
No, it is more: I seem to remember that, I vaguely remember that. Literally: an image of it appears in front of my mind's eye.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
L35

Het is langzamerhand normaal om geregeld van werk en van werkgever te wisselen.

QUESTION: what does it mean?
It has gradually become normality to swap jobs and employers on a regular basis.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

L39
(background: someone writing a letter)

1, Denis is tot over haar oren verliefd. Als ze niet voor de spiegel staat, hangt ze om de hals van haar nieuwe held. Of ze zit vaag voor zich uit te staren.

QUESTION: what do the underlined parts mean?
If she is not standing in front of a mirror then she is hanging around the neck of her new hero (lover)
Or else she sits and stares vaguely in front of her
2, P.S. Mijn adres blijft voorlopig hetzelfde. Laat je nog wat van je horen?

QUESTION: isn't it logic that one should say ' let me hear more from you again'. but here the book used a word 'je'. why?
No. Ik laat van mij horen means I will make sure that people get to hear from me. So the question means: will you make sure that you do that?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

L40

Mocht blijken dat een en ander niet volgens plan verloopt, dan is het einde verhaal.

QUESTION: Is this sentence omitting something? if so, what is it? when to use ''mocht blijken'.
no. If is an old subjunctive with a conditional meaning. In English you'd have to use the conjunction IF

If it turns out that things don't go according to plan that 'll be the end of the story.

In Dutch you could add "als", but since the conditionality is already implied, it is not really necessary:

Als mocht blijken dat ...., dan ....
or:
Als er mocht blijken dat ....

The addition of "er" makes it more indefinite, like adding "for whatever reason" in English.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


ALVAST BEDANKT! :-D

Graag gedaan.

ngonyama
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Re: Q&A Corner

Post by ngonyama » Sat Jan 16, 2016 3:48 pm

ngonyama wrote:
luvdutch wrote:Hi ngonyama and dolo, how are you? Yes it's been a while, but i finished the book 2 eventually. I must say the more you learn, the happier you get. i finally came to the following questions from book 2.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
L19

(background: the woman is talking with her friend about the wedding)

--Dus binnenkort heet je anders? Dat wordt wennen.
--Wees maar niet bang, ik hou mijn eigen achternaam.

QUESTION: wennen looks like a verb but the verb after the word ' worden', shouldn't it be gewend? what does it mean here?

Yes, that is an odd expression... The meaning is: we will have to get used to it. I suppose it might come from expressions like "het wordt donker" where worden is a copula: it is becoming dark. So worden is not the auxiliary for the passive here. Neither is wennen really a verb. Every verb can be used as a neuter noun. In this case meaning: habituating, getting used to. So the sentence means something like: the focus is becoming the habituation process.

Often this expression is followed by the word 'geblazen'. : Dat wordt vechten geblazen. I think it comes from the army: There is going to be a trumpet call announcing that we have to fight. In that case the word vechten means the signal "fight!".



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
L26

(background: people talking about EU and USA)

Ook is er geen sprake van een gezamenlijk militair optreden, laat staan van een Europees leger.

QUESTION: it is explained that 'laat staan' here means 'en helemaal niet'. but english has a similar one 'let alone'. can 'let alone' be used as the translation here?
Yes. It literally means: leave that standing there, don't even touch it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
L33

Dat staat mij voor de geest=dat meen ik mij te herinneren

QUESTIONS: what is a translation of this two sentences? it looks like they mean: that's still vivid in my mind=i remember that very well?
No, it is more: I seem to remember that, I vaguely remember that. Literally: an image of it appears in front of my mind's eye.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
L35

Het is langzamerhand normaal om geregeld van werk en van werkgever te wisselen.

QUESTION: what does it mean?
It has gradually become normality to swap jobs and employers on a regular basis.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

L39
(background: someone writing a letter)

1, Denis is tot over haar oren verliefd. Als ze niet voor de spiegel staat, hangt ze om de hals van haar nieuwe held. Of ze zit vaag voor zich uit te staren.

QUESTION: what do the underlined parts mean?
If she is not standing in front of a mirror then she is hanging around the neck of her new hero (lover)
Or else she sits and stares vaguely in front of her
2, P.S. Mijn adres blijft voorlopig hetzelfde. Laat je nog wat van je horen?

QUESTION: isn't it logic that one should say ' let me hear more from you again'. but here the book used a word 'je'. why?
No. Ik laat van mij horen means I will make sure that people get to hear from me. So the question means: will you make sure that you do that?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

L40

Mocht blijken dat een en ander niet volgens plan verloopt, dan is het einde verhaal.

QUESTION: Is this sentence omitting something? if so, what is it? when to use ''mocht blijken'.
no. If is an old past subjunctive with a conditional meaning. In English you'd have to use the conjunction IF

If it turns out that things don't go according to plan that 'll be the end of the story.

In Dutch you could add "als", but since the conditionality is already implied, it is not really necessary:

Als mocht blijken dat ...., dan ....
or:
Als er mocht blijken dat ....

The addition of "er" makes it more indefinite, like adding "for whatever reason" in English.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


ALVAST BEDANKT! :-D

Graag gedaan.

ngonyama
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Fifth, sixth, seventh, ..., languages: Russisch, Xhosa

Re: Q&A Corner

Post by ngonyama » Sat Jan 16, 2016 3:51 pm

ngonyama wrote:
ngonyama wrote:
luvdutch wrote:Hi ngonyama and dolo, how are you? Yes it's been a while, but i finished the book 2 eventually. I must say the more you learn, the happier you get. i finally came to the following questions from book 2.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
L19

(background: the woman is talking with her friend about the wedding)

--Dus binnenkort heet je anders? Dat wordt wennen.
--Wees maar niet bang, ik hou mijn eigen achternaam.

QUESTION: wennen looks like a verb but the verb after the word ' worden', shouldn't it be gewend? what does it mean here?

Yes, that is an odd expression... The meaning is: we will have to get used to it. I suppose it might come from expressions like "het wordt donker" where worden is a copula: it is becoming dark. So worden is not the auxiliary for the passive here. Neither is wennen really a verb. Every verb can be used as a neuter noun. In this case meaning: habituating, getting used to. So the sentence means something like: the focus is becoming the habituation process. The use of worden gives the sentence the flavor of a prediction, in English you would add: "mark my words!"

Often this expression is followed by the word 'geblazen'. : Dat wordt vechten geblazen. I think it comes from the army: There is going to be a trumpet call announcing that we have to fight. In that case the word vechten means the signal "fight!". The sentence usually means: oh no, that will end in a fight, mark my words!



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
L26

(background: people talking about EU and USA)

Ook is er geen sprake van een gezamenlijk militair optreden, laat staan van een Europees leger.

QUESTION: it is explained that 'laat staan' here means 'en helemaal niet'. but english has a similar one 'let alone'. can 'let alone' be used as the translation here?
Yes. It literally means: leave that standing there, don't even touch it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
L33

Dat staat mij voor de geest=dat meen ik mij te herinneren

QUESTIONS: what is a translation of this two sentences? it looks like they mean: that's still vivid in my mind=i remember that very well?
No, it is more: I seem to remember that, I vaguely remember that. Literally: an image of it appears in front of my mind's eye.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
L35

Het is langzamerhand normaal om geregeld van werk en van werkgever te wisselen.

QUESTION: what does it mean?
It has gradually become normality to swap jobs and employers on a regular basis.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

L39
(background: someone writing a letter)

1, Denis is tot over haar oren verliefd. Als ze niet voor de spiegel staat, hangt ze om de hals van haar nieuwe held. Of ze zit vaag voor zich uit te staren.

QUESTION: what do the underlined parts mean?
If she is not standing in front of a mirror then she is hanging around the neck of her new hero (lover)
Or else she sits and stares vaguely in front of her
2, P.S. Mijn adres blijft voorlopig hetzelfde. Laat je nog wat van je horen?

QUESTION: isn't it logic that one should say ' let me hear more from you again'. but here the book used a word 'je'. why?
No. Ik laat van mij horen means I will make sure that people get to hear from me. So the question means: will you make sure that you do that?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

L40

Mocht blijken dat een en ander niet volgens plan verloopt, dan is het einde verhaal.

QUESTION: Is this sentence omitting something? if so, what is it? when to use ''mocht blijken'.
no. If is an old past subjunctive with a conditional meaning. In English you'd have to use the conjunction IF

If it turns out that things don't go according to plan that 'll be the end of the story.

In Dutch you could add "als", but since the conditionality is already implied, it is not really necessary:

Als mocht blijken dat ...., dan ....
or:
Als er mocht blijken dat ....

The addition of "er" makes it more indefinite, like adding "for whatever reason" in English.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


ALVAST BEDANKT! :-D

Graag gedaan.

Dolo
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Re: Q&A Corner

Post by Dolo » Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:39 pm

What's up guys, another question from me:

Ons kind moet geen proefkonijn zijn

I learned once that 'moeten' + any kind of negation transforms into 'hoeven' so the aforementioned sentence should go as 'Ons kind hoeft geen proefkonijn te zijn'. Is that any sort of exception or you can resolve it however you like?

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Re: Q&A Corner

Post by BrutallyFrank » Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:27 pm

Dolo wrote:What's up guys, another question from me:

Ons kind moet geen proefkonijn zijn

I learned once that 'moeten' + any kind of negation transforms into 'hoeven' so the aforementioned sentence should go as 'Ons kind hoeft geen proefkonijn te zijn'. Is that any sort of exception or you can resolve it however you like?
I don't know where you got this from, but my guess would be from some Belgian site. That's where you would find this use of the word 'moeten'. It could be Dutch in a case where it is clear that the child is forced to be a 'guinea pig'/'labrat'. In that case it's like a very forced denial, in which the word 'moet' probably would be emphasized.

I don't think it's really wrong to say 'moeten', but to me 'hoeven' sounds better. But then again ... I'm Dutch :wink:
"Moenie worrie nie, alles sal reg kom" (maar hy het nie gesê wanneer nie!)

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Re: Q&A Corner

Post by Dolo » Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:04 pm

I took it from De Telegraaf which seems to be a Dutch newspaper. It does sound weird to me but thanks for the explanation nonetheless :)

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Re: Q&A Corner

Post by BrutallyFrank » Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:17 am

Would you be so kind to post the paragraph?
"Moenie worrie nie, alles sal reg kom" (maar hy het nie gesê wanneer nie!)

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Re: Q&A Corner

Post by Dolo » Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:46 am

Natuurlijk.
Het Haagse gezin Petronilia heeft nu een advocaat in de arm genomen om alsnog via de juridische weg vergoeding voor Amerika af te dwingen. ,,Als ouder wil je het beste voor je kind”, legt moeder en ook verpleegkundige Maya uit. ,,Dat is volgens ons in de VS, waar ze bekend zijn met de behandeling en de mogelijke ernstige complicaties. Die kennis is hier nog niet. We hebben begrepen dat het personeel nog geschoold moet worden. Ons kind moet geen proefkonijn zijn.”

ngonyama
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Re: Q&A Corner

Post by ngonyama » Fri Jan 29, 2016 2:19 pm

Ons kind hoeft geen proefkonijn te zijn = it is not imperative for our child to be a guinea pig.
Ons kind moet geen proefkonijn zijn = our child must never be a guinea pig.

Hoeven negates an obligation.
Moeten expresses how things must (not) be. But people often confuse the two.

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Re: Q&A Corner

Post by Dolo » Sat Jan 30, 2016 1:49 am

ngonyama wrote:Ons kind hoeft geen proefkonijn te zijn = it is not imperative for our child to be a guinea pig.
Ons kind moet geen proefkonijn zijn = our child must never be a guinea pig.

Hoeven negates an obligation.
Moeten expresses how things must (not) be. But people often confuse the two.
Thanks ngonyama, it's much clearer now :-D

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Re: Q&A Corner

Post by Dolo » Sat Jan 30, 2016 10:23 am

And another question straightaway guys:

Maar je kan je ook voorstellen dat de universiteit haar vindingen en gegevens deelt, open toegankelijk maakt voor iedereen.

'Universiteit' is a de-woord, so the pronoun referring to it should be ''zijn'. Why 'haar' then?

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Re: Q&A Corner

Post by Bert » Sat Jan 30, 2016 9:27 pm

Dolo wrote:And another question straightaway guys:

Maar je kan je ook voorstellen dat de universiteit haar vindingen en gegevens deelt, open toegankelijk maakt voor iedereen.

'Universiteit' is a de-woord, so the pronoun referring to it should be ''zijn'. Why 'haar' then?
Universiteit is een vrouwelijk de-woord (zoals politie, regering, overheid enz.), daarom haar dit en dat. Nederlanders (en vooral Vlamingen) kennen nog steeds het geslacht van een paar de-woorden.

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Re: Q&A Corner

Post by Dolo » Sun Jan 31, 2016 12:03 am

Bedankt voor je Nederlandse antwoord :) Dus hoe kan ik het onderscheiden, het is normaal niet in het woordenboek bepaald of een woord vrouwelijk of mannelijk is.

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Re: Q&A Corner

Post by BrutallyFrank » Sun Jan 31, 2016 9:28 am

Ik denk niet dat het erg veel mensen zou opvallen als er 'zijn vindingen' had gestaan.

Lees dit maar eens: https://onzetaal.nl/taaladvies/advies/verwijswoorden
"Moenie worrie nie, alles sal reg kom" (maar hy het nie gesê wanneer nie!)

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Re: Questions DM book 1, 2 ( closed )

Post by luvdutch » Sat Feb 27, 2016 3:33 am

Thanks to everyone who came here to read. Now this thread is closed but if anyone still wants to have a read or get some references during your studying , you're welcome here.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Special Thanks to Ngonyama:

Dear Ngonyama,

Just can not thank you enough because you helped me so much during my study for the two books. Although i wanted to write this in dutch to show off how much i can speak but it is not the time now, nor is it necessary. I want to achieve higher levels so I purchased another book to study. I have found that after the learning base is laid, one can find the answers easier (That's why i do not visit here so often). Nevertheless i do remember and appreciate the helps you offered here. With thanks in heart, i am inspired to learn more!

Have a good day!

luvdutch

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