Phase two - Persevere in it

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luvdutch
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Phase two - Persevere in it

Post by luvdutch » Fri Jun 03, 2016 2:13 pm

Hi, ngonyama How are you?

It's been quite a while and it's a long story too. I am going to pick up my Dutch learning again. This time, I shift the focus from textbooks to practical reading materials (reviews, news, journals...) so that I can exploit up-to-date use of Dutch language. That would be so delightful if you could help sometimes. :)

1, Nederlands bier van ambachtelijke makelij blijft het goed doen in het buitenland. De grens van de brouwcapaciteit komt hierdoor volgens de exporteur in zicht. "Brouwerijen zijn niet van rubber."

Question: in zicht komen? (i can not find this in dictionary, how does it mean?) what does it mean by saying "brouwerijen zijn niet van rubber"?
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2, Dit jaar zal er opnieuw meer bier over de grens vloeien. "Precieze cijfers houden we niet bij, maar de rek is er nog niet uit."

questions: rek=resilience? and what does the underlined mean?
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3, Niet alleen in Nederland breidt de ambachtelijke bierindustrie zich als een olievlek uit. In andere landen is hetzelfde gaande.

question: does the word gaande in the sentence above mean: is going on.
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4, Hij waakt voor een eenzijdige focus op de populaire IPA: een op Amerikaanse leest geschoeide bittere biervariant.

question: beer...shoes?
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5, Jopen focust in veel landen vooral op bieren die met eeuwenoude stadsrecepten zijn gebrouwen. "Het spreekt aan als je komt met smaken volgens historisch recept.

question: is stadsrecepten translated here as traditional recipe? "spreken aan" or "aanspreken" here? meaning please.
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6, Welk bier in welk land populair is, kan exporteur Kempen niet zeggen. "In bierlanden worden alle soorten gedronken, we buitelen allemaal over elkaar heen."

question: please help with the meaning of the underlined.
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7, "Ik houd heus van een lang gerijpt zwaar bier vol smaak dat ik drie dagen later nog zit te herkauwen. Maar soms wil ik een paar speciaalbieren achter elkaar kunnen drinken. Varianten als saison en session-IPA zijn daar geschikt voor en nemen bij bierdrinkers steeds meer de plaats in van pils."

question: the word 'herkauwen' means something like an animal regurgitate the food. but is it figuratively used here. Can we use it to express the meaning of "to savor something"? Is "saison" a beer type?
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Thank you Ngonyama

luvdutch :)

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Re: Phase two - Persevere in it

Post by ngonyama » Sat Jun 04, 2016 1:43 am

luvdutch wrote:Hi, ngonyama How are you?

I'm OK, thanks! Nice to see you back!

It's been quite a while and it's a long story too. I am going to pick up my Dutch learning again. This time, I shift the focus from textbooks to practical reading materials (reviews, news, journals...) so that I can exploit up-to-date use of Dutch language. That would be so delightful if you could help sometimes. :)
I'll do my best :-D

1, Nederlands bier van ambachtelijke makelij blijft het goed doen in het buitenland. De grens van de brouwcapaciteit komt hierdoor volgens de exporteur in zicht. "Brouwerijen zijn niet van rubber."

Question: in zicht komen? (i can not find this in dictionary, how does it mean?)

Literally: to come into sight. Imagine being on a ship. At some point you can see the harbor you are trying to reach. It comes into sight. Here it means taht you are quickly approaching the limits of the ability to build more capacity

what does it mean by saying "brouwerijen zijn niet van rubber"?

Literally: breweries are not made from rubber, i.e. they are not elastic. Once they have been built it is impossible to increase their capacity
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2, Dit jaar zal er opnieuw meer bier over de grens vloeien. "Precieze cijfers houden we niet bij, maar de rek is er nog niet uit."

questions: rek=resilience? and what does the underlined mean?

rekken means to stretch and 'de rek' is a noun meaning the ability to stretch. Here is means: there is still capacity for growth: the amount sold across the border can be stretched a little more
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3, Niet alleen in Nederland breidt de ambachtelijke bierindustrie zich als een olievlek uit. In andere landen is hetzelfde gaande.

question: does the word gaande in the sentence above mean: is going on.

yes, it is a rare example of a present particliple being used with 'to be'. In English that is very common, in Dutch not so much
--------------
4, Hij waakt voor een eenzijdige focus op de populaire IPA: een op Amerikaanse leest geschoeide bittere biervariant.

question: beer...shoes?
:D A leest is a metal shape that shoes were made upon and schoeien is the process of making a shoe by hand. "Op die leest geschoeid" is a fixed expression that means modeled after that example, following that recipe. A beer fashioned after the bitter version popular in the US

By the way: did you know that people sometimes drink beer from a glass shaped like a boot? It is kind of a game because if you go too far drinking from it, the beer in the toe will suddenly gulp into your face if you don't watch out.


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5, Jopen focust in veel landen vooral op bieren die met eeuwenoude stadsrecepten zijn gebrouwen. "Het spreekt aan als je komt met smaken volgens historisch recept.

question: is stadsrecepten translated here as traditional recipe? "spreken aan" or "aanspreken" here? meaning please.

I'm not sure. Stadsrecept means "recipe of the city". Maybe cities regulated how beer was made in the old days? I don't know. "He spreekt aan" means "It appeals to people", i.e. it is a good sales argument
-------------

6, Welk bier in welk land populair is, kan exporteur Kempen niet zeggen. "In bierlanden worden alle soorten gedronken, we buitelen allemaal over elkaar heen."

question: please help with the meaning of the underlined.

buitelen means to tumble. Over elkaar heen buitelen means something like tumbling over each other, say in a wrestling match. Here it means something like: it is a free for all, now one is on top, then the next guy.
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7, "Ik houd heus van een lang gerijpt zwaar bier vol smaak dat ik drie dagen later nog zit te herkauwen. Maar soms wil ik een paar speciaalbieren achter elkaar kunnen drinken. Varianten als saison en session-IPA zijn daar geschikt voor en nemen bij bierdrinkers steeds meer de plaats in van pils."

question: the word 'herkauwen' means something like an animal regurgitate the food. but is it figuratively used here. Can we use it to express the meaning of "to savor something"?
Yes it means: to ruminate like what a cow does. Figuratively it means that you can still taste it a long time. Three days seems a bit exagerated to me though


Is "saison" a beer type?
Apparently. I think it is a beer that is only brewed in a certain season, but I am not an expert. The word is French and means season. A Belgian might be able to tell you more.

--------------

Thank you Ngonyama
You are welcome
luvdutch :)

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Re: Phase two - Persevere in it

Post by BrutallyFrank » Sat Jun 04, 2016 11:05 am

As a beer-aficionado and grandson of a brewmaster, I feel the urge to elaborate on some things mentioned here ...

Stadsrecept: that's indeed a recipe for beer which has a very local market. Years ago almost every town and village had their own brewery. And some of their products were so popular among the citizens it was named after their town/village. Some of these beers survived over times and are still popular. For instance Kölsch (from Cologne). But there are other local beers like Faro from Brussels, which is very sweet because it has some rock candy in it. And of course Lambiek (the base for Faro, Kriek and Gueuze), which can only be made local because of the spontaneous fermentation with the local yeast.
Some older bottles of Gueuze can be veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery expensive!

Herkauwen: very recognizable. Sometimes beers can have such a strong distinctive flavour, it sticks to your palate for minutes. A friend of mine, who runs a bar with his girlfriend, has his own beer. Very bitter ... and after the first sip I thought the taste wouldn't go away for the next few hours or so. But I guess that the taste buds slowly adjust to it and then you can go on.

Saison: that's indeed a Belgian beer originally from Henegouwen (Hainaut) which is produced during the winter. A light, amber coloured beer that was meant as a refreshment for the seasonal workers. A few years ago it became more popular after all these years. I guess there are still a few beers that used to be popular, but almost disappeared except for some hardcore brewers. I'm still sad that Heineken terminated Ridder Maltezer ... :-(
"Moenie worrie nie, alles sal reg kom" (maar hy het nie gesê wanneer nie!)

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Re: Phase two - Persevere in it

Post by luvdutch » Sun Jun 05, 2016 3:26 am

ngonyama wrote:
luvdutch wrote:

By the way: did you know that people sometimes drink beer from a glass shaped like a boot? It is kind of a game because if you go too far drinking from it, the beer in the toe will suddenly gulp into your face if you don't watch out.


No, I don't know that. It is mind-blowing to imagine a scene like that, haha!

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Re: Phase two - Persevere in it

Post by luvdutch » Sun Jun 05, 2016 3:34 am

BrutallyFrank wrote:As a beer-aficionado and grandson of a brewmaster, I feel the urge to elborate on some things mentioned here ...

Stadsrecept: that's indeed a recipe for beer which has a very local market. Years ago almost every town and village had their own brewery. And some of their products were so popular among the citizens it was named after their town/village. Some of these beers survived over times and are still popular. For instance Kölsch (from Cologne). But there are other local beers like Faro from Brussels, which is very sweet because it has some rock candy in it. And of course Lambiek (the base for Faro, Kriek and Gueuze), which can only be made local because of the spontaneous fermentation with the local yeast.
Some older bottles of Gueuze can be veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery expensive!

Herkauwen: very recognizable. Sometimes beers can have such a strong distinctive flavour, it sticks to your palate for minutes. A friend of mine, who runs a bar with his girlfriend, has his own beer. Very bitter ... and after the first sip I thought the taste wouldn't go away for the next few hours or so. But I guess that the taste buds slowly adjust to it and then you can go on.

Saison: that's indeed a Belgian beer originally from Henegouwen (Hainaut) which is produced during the winter. A light, amber coloured beer that was meant as a refreshment for the seasonal workers. A few years ago it became more popular after all these years. I guess there are still a few beers that used to be popular, but almost disappeared except for some hardcore brewers. I'm still sad that Heineken terminated Ridder Maltezer ... :-(
Interesting!! It's quite a bit of an eye-opener to learn so much extra about the beer culture there. Thanks Frank!

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Re: Phase two - Persevere in it

Post by BrutallyFrank » Sun Jun 05, 2016 10:28 am

luvdutch wrote:
ngonyama wrote:
luvdutch wrote:

By the way: did you know that people sometimes drink beer from a glass shaped like a boot? It is kind of a game because if you go too far drinking from it, the beer in the toe will suddenly gulp into your face if you don't watch out.


No, I don't know that. It is mind-blowing to imagine a scene like that, haha!
It seems to be a German thing, that boot. The secret to that one is to turn the boot a little bit during the drinking. That way the air can flow to the toe and won't rush out. Different thing is Pauwel's Kwak: they have some odd shaped glass (koetsiersglas = coachman's glass) that has a bulge at the bottom. There's no use turning your glass there when drinking the beer. Legend has that it was used for coachmen and that they could hang it on their coaches while having their hands free for the reigns.

Besides all that: I don't think that games and drinking beer (or other alcoholic beverages) go together ...
"Moenie worrie nie, alles sal reg kom" (maar hy het nie gesê wanneer nie!)

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Re: Phase two - Persevere in it

Post by luvdutch » Sun Jun 12, 2016 10:03 am

AH it's been hectic these days. Must catch up. :D :D :D

1, De EU scherpt bestaande wapenwetgeving versneld aan naar aanleiding van de aanslagen in Parijs en Brussel.

Question: What are "bestannde" and "versneld" in the sentence above? the EU sharpened the "wegtgeving" or the "VERSNELLING" of the legislation?

2,Ook wordt de uitwisseling van data die wapens beter traceerbaar moeten maken, verbeterd. De niet-EU-landen Noorwegen, Liechtenstein, Zwitserland en IJsland haken daarbij aan.

Question:dictionary says 'aanhaken' means talk about the same thing further. But here are countries not humans. What does it mean here?

3, Daarnaast treffen inlichtingenofficieren van dit samenwerkingsverband, de Counter Terrorism Group (CTG) geheten, elkaar regelmatig om operationele inlichtingen te delen. Dat werkt snel en zo kunnen er meer verbanden worden gelegd.

Question: 1, how is the word "treffen" used here. It seems a very frequently-used word. 2, verband leggen: Does it mean it building relations or lay the groundwork of something. Is there other expressions to use to say this?



Thank You :-D

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Re: Phase two - Persevere in it

Post by BrutallyFrank » Sun Jun 12, 2016 11:46 am

luvdutch wrote:AH it's been hectic these days. Must catch up. :D :D :D

1, De EU scherpt bestaande wapenwetgeving versneld aan naar aanleiding van de aanslagen in Parijs en Brussel.

Question: What are "bestannde" and "versneld" in the sentence above? the EU sharpened the "wegtgeving" or the "VERSNELLING" of the legislation?
In this sentence 'bestaande' is an adjective. It means that the law concerning weapons already exists (bestaat), but gets more strict because of things that have been happening. 'Versneld' is here connected to 'aanscherpen' (to make more strict) and means that the procedure to adjust the law is being shortened. Normally they would talk about 'versnelde procedure'.
2,Ook wordt de uitwisseling van data die wapens beter traceerbaar moeten maken, verbeterd. De niet-EU-landen Noorwegen, Liechtenstein, Zwitserland en IJsland haken daarbij aan.

Question:dictionary says 'aanhaken' means talk about the same thing further. But here are countries not humans. What does it mean here?
It's not wrong what you say about 'aanhaken'. But when it concerns talking the expression is 'aanhaken bij een gesprek'. In this case it means that some action is on the way (the exchange of data) and that those countries join that project now (aanhaken bij de uitwisseling van data).
3, Daarnaast treffen inlichtingenofficieren van dit samenwerkingsverband, de Counter Terrorism Group (CTG) geheten, elkaar regelmatig om operationele inlichtingen te delen. Dat werkt snel en zo kunnen er meer verbanden worden gelegd.

Question: 1, how is the word "treffen" used here. It seems a very frequently-used word. 2, verband leggen: Does it mean it building relations or lay the groundwork of something. Is there other expressions to use to say this?



Thank You :-D
1. 'Treffen' is used in combination with 'elkaar', which basically means meeting on a regular basis (elkaar regelmatig treffen). 'Treffen' can also mean to hit the target when it's a synonym of 'raken' (to touch).

2. 'Verband leggen' means that people start to link things together. So building relations or laying the groundwork is a good explanation. In this case the intelligence officers work together to share information and build a network. By combining information they can recognize patterns which makes it easier to deal with things.
Other expressions could be:
- een patroon herkennen
- connectie leggen
"Moenie worrie nie, alles sal reg kom" (maar hy het nie gesê wanneer nie!)

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Re: Phase two - Persevere in it

Post by luvdutch » Mon Jun 13, 2016 2:54 am

Thank you for your input Frank. That helps immensely. :) :) :)

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Re: Phase two - Persevere in it

Post by estarling » Fri Jun 17, 2016 5:49 pm

... oeps, sorry voor mijn verkeerd thema.
Last edited by estarling on Sat Jun 18, 2016 11:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
***** De onderlijning van fouten en de kritiek over deze tekst zijn welkom.

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Re: Phase two - Persevere in it

Post by Dolo » Sat Jun 18, 2016 8:16 am

Zoals in het geval van luvdutchs vorig onderwerp, zal ik mezelf hierbij zetten en mijn enige vraag stellen om het maken van een ander onderwerp te vermijden :)
Met haar bestseller over geweld door jonge moslims doorbrak politieagente Tania Kambouri in Duitsland een taboe
Waarom is dit 'doorbrak' en geen 'brak politieagente Tania Kambouri in Duitsland een taboe door'? Het lijkt me geen bijzin, dus ik begrijp niet de reden voor het samenstellen van 'breken' en 'door' in dit geval.

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Re: Phase two - Persevere in it

Post by BrutallyFrank » Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:41 am

Dolo wrote:Zoals in het geval van luvdutchs vorig onderwerp, zal ik mezelf hierbij zetten en mijn enige vraag stellen om het maken van een ander onderwerp te vermijden :)
Met haar bestseller over geweld door jonge moslims doorbrak politieagente Tania Kambouri in Duitsland een taboe
Waarom is dit 'doorbrak' en geen 'brak politieagente Tania Kambouri in Duitsland een taboe door'? Het lijkt me geen bijzin, dus ik begrijp niet de reden voor het samenstellen van 'breken' en 'door' in dit geval.
Dit heeft te maken met het feit dat 'doorbreken' een overgankelijk en onovergankelijk werkwoord kan zijn. Zoals het in jouw zin staat, is het overgankelijk en verbonden met het lijdend voorwerp (taboe). Hier heeft het de betekenis van 'veranderen van een situatie' en is 'doorbreken' figuurlijk bedoeld.

Als je zegt: 'brak politieagente Tania Kambouri in Duitsland een taboe door', dan breek de politieagente het taboe letterlijk in tweeën. En dat kan niet! [-X

De uitspraak van de twee woorden is in dit geval duidelijker: door de klemtoon te veranderen, weet je meteen om welk werkwoord het gaat.
doorbreken --> overgankelijk (vaak figuurlijk)
doorbreken --> onovergankelijk (vaak letterlijk)


Ik moet toegeven dat de Dikke van Dale niet helemaal duidelijk is. Die geeft aan dat die tweede betekenis ook overgankelijk kan zijn (een stok doorbreken). In een paar voorbeelden is Van Dale ook niet helemaal duidelijk, maar dat laat ik voor wat het is. Met de bovenstaande uitleg kom je al heel ver.
"Moenie worrie nie, alles sal reg kom" (maar hy het nie gesê wanneer nie!)

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Re: Phase two - Persevere in it

Post by Dolo » Sat Jun 18, 2016 10:31 am

Aaaaha, dat is nu helemaal duidelijk, bedankt BrutallyFrank! Dus 'voorkomen' zou een ander voorbeeld van zulk geval kunnen zijn?

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Re: Phase two - Persevere in it

Post by ngonyama » Sat Jun 18, 2016 6:01 pm

Dolo wrote:Aaaaha, dat is nu helemaal duidelijk, bedankt BrutallyFrank! Dus 'voorkomen' zou een ander voorbeeld van zulk geval kunnen zijn?
Ja dat is ook zo'n klemtoonhomogram.

Dit voorkómt ellende - dit heeft ellende voorkómen --------- Onscheidbaar, overgankelijk (to prevent)
Het komt vóór dat .... - Het is vóórgekomen dat --------- Scheidbaar, onovergankelijk+zijn (ergatief) (to occur)

Vaak zijn de onscheidbare versies ook meer overdrachtelijk van betekenis

Een school dóórlopen -- scheidbaar. Je loopt letterlijk te voet in vijf minuten door de school
Een school doorlópen -- onscheidbaar. Je brengt vijf jaar door op die school en krijgt een diploma.

In dit geval zijn ze wel allebei overgankelijk.

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