Time + place before left or after right side

According to many, the word order is one of the hardest parts of the Dutch language. If you are also struggling with subordinate clauses, inversion and the like, this is the place to be.
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Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:07 pm
Country of residence: Netherlands
Mother tongue: Dutch (Netherlands)
Second language: English
Third language: Portuguese (Brazil)
Fourth language: French
Fifth, sixth, seventh, ..., languages: Duits
Gender: Male

Time + place before left or after right side

Post by AronVanAmmers » Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:57 pm

Hi all,

I'll keep it in English for our foreign readers.

I was reading through the word order chapters and ended up in the advanced section of this already advanced subject ;).

This sentence made me wonder:
we can only place one sentence component before the left side and one after the right side
In my personal "taalgevoel" / "language feeling", more than one sentence component can be placed before the left or after the right side, as long as it's the time and place parts.

To add on an example from the site:
We hebben haar gisteren op een leuke manier in de winkel een boek gegeven.
This sentence consists of the following components:
[FF:We hebben] [IO:haar] [T:gisteren] [M:op een leuke manier] [P:in de winkel] [DO:een boek] [OV:gegeven].
To me it feels correct to take both time and place to the front:
[T:Gisteren] [P:in de winkel] [FF:hebben we] [IO:haar] [M:op een leuke manier] [DO:een boek] [OV:gegeven].
(Yesterday at the store, we gave her a book in a nice way)
I do agree that manner cannot be taken out together with time or place, i.e. this is incorrect:

[T:Gisteren] [M:op een leuke manier] [FF:hebben we] [IO:haar] [P:in de winkel] [DO:een boek] [OV:gegeven].

Do you agree or disagree that taking time + place out together is correct?

Some more examples:
Ik ben gaan hardlopen op het strand gisteren.
Vanmorgen in het zwembad ben ik helaas uitgegleden.
All of these cases suggest that the place and time were already known to the receiver of the message; you already knew I was going to be at the swimming pool this morning, and now I tell you that I unfortunately slipped.

And something more to chew on, time + place on the left and manner + place 2 on the right:
Gisteren in de winkel hebben we haar een boek gegeven op een leuke manier in dat zaaltje achterin.
Correct? Incorrect? To me it's on the edge, but it could be correct.

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