function of 'om' here

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Do we buy our train tickets 'in' or 'op' the station? Do we ask 'voor' or 'om' informatie?
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Bert
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function of 'om' here

Post by Bert » Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:54 pm

Ze hebben de beslissing buiten mij om genomen. They have made the decision without me.

What I do not understand here is the function of 'om'. I'm afraid the 'om' can't be left out of this sentence even if I do not really see the sense of it.

Some explanation would be appreciated. Also, if you could give other examples with 'om' or other prepositions where a Dutch learner can't see the point of the preposition at first.

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Re: function of 'om' here

Post by andreengels » Wed Mar 16, 2011 7:11 am

The word "om" in your sentence doesn't really have an independent meaning. You should analyze the line considering "buiten ... om" a single preposition. Its literal meaning is something like "going partly around without entering (a town or city)" and can be said about things like a road or a route, but it is more common in the figurative meaning like here, meaning something like "without involving ..."

Other such 'two part propositions' are expressions like "om ... heen" (around), "door ... heen" (through), "achter ... langs" (going around behind), "onder ... door" (going under).

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Bert
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Re: function of 'om' here

Post by Bert » Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:15 pm

Thank you. The problem was that I couldn't see the relation between om and nemen (genomen), and now it's clear: the relation is between buiten and om. The buitenom is just splitted by mij. Tof :-D

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Re: function of 'om' here

Post by duchess » Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:16 pm

I have one question for om. Do we say: Ik ga met mijn vriend naar het cafe voor een kopje koffie or om een kopje koffie?

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Re: function of 'om' here

Post by Joke » Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:28 pm

voor

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Re: function of 'om' here

Post by duchess » Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:38 pm

Bedankt! :)

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Re: function of 'om' here

Post by Quetzal » Sun Nov 06, 2011 11:20 pm

duchess wrote:I have one question for om. Do we say: Ik ga met mijn vriend naar het cafe voor een kopje koffie or om een kopje koffie?
You may be thinking of a similar phrase which is e.g. "Ik ga om een brood", meaning "I'm going out to buy a bread", but that only works for small purchases.

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Re: function of 'om' here

Post by Bert » Mon Nov 07, 2011 5:39 pm

Quetzal wrote:
duchess wrote:I have one question for om. Do we say: Ik ga met mijn vriend naar het cafe voor een kopje koffie or om een kopje koffie?
You may be thinking of a similar phrase which is e.g. "Ik ga om een brood", meaning "I'm going out to buy a bread", but that only works for small purchases.
It seems that "Ik ga om een brood" is the abbreviated version of "Ik ga (naar de bakker) om een brood te kopen" - but I might be wrong.

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Re: function of 'om' here

Post by ngonyama » Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:58 am

Bert wrote:
Quetzal wrote:
duchess wrote:I have one question for om. Do we say: Ik ga met mijn vriend naar het cafe voor een kopje koffie or om een kopje koffie?
You may be thinking of a similar phrase which is e.g. "Ik ga om een brood", meaning "I'm going out to buy a bread", but that only works for small purchases.
It seems that "Ik ga om een brood" is the abbreviated version of "Ik ga (naar de bakker) om een brood te kopen" - but I might be wrong.
No, you are right.

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