Erop uit Gaan?

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Do we buy our train tickets 'in' or 'op' the station? Do we ask 'voor' or 'om' informatie?
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rhino514
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Erop uit Gaan?

Post by rhino514 » Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:54 am

I saw elsewehere in this forum the sentence "hij gaat om een brood”.
Is this practically the same as "Thijs zei dat hij op een bos bloemen uitgaat "? i.e. The first sentence means "to go out for a bread" and the second means "to go out for some flowers"? So can one use bothof these constructions in such cases?

I came across a list of compound verbs such as Erop uit Gaan, and it is quite difficult to find concrete translations for these verbs. without wanting to master each one, I was wondering if there are perhaps two or three from the list which are commonly used and useful to know (i´ve taken out ervan afhangen and ervan uitgaan, which i am already familiar with):

erin opgaan
eronderdoor gaan
erop afkomen
erop ingaan
eropna houden
eropuit zijn, gaan, trekken
ertegenaan gaan
ertussendoor lopen
ertussenuit knijpen
ervanaf vliegen
ervan afzien
ervanlangs geven
langs elkaar heen praten


bedankt!

rhino

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Quetzal
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Re: Erop uit Gaan?

Post by Quetzal » Wed Nov 23, 2011 7:26 pm

rhino514 wrote:I saw elsewehere in this forum the sentence "hij gaat om een brood”.
Is this practically the same as "Thijs zei dat hij op een bos bloemen uitgaat "? i.e. The first sentence means "to go out for a bread" and the second means "to go out for some flowers"? So can one use bothof these constructions in such cases?
I don't know where you got your sentence with "Thijs", I'm guessing you wrote it yourself? There are several errors in it. Most relevantly here, using "op" there is impossible, but even with the more logical "om" it doesn't work. And then there's the tense problem - if the original verb is past tense, shouldn't "uitgaan" be as well?

"Erop uit gaan" is a construction that means "going for a walk" or something in that nature, though usually with a certain purpose beyond the walk itself. "Hij gaat erop uit om een bos bloemen te kopen", for instance, could work. Note that the "er" is an essential part of the construction and can't be replaced by anything here, that seems to be where you're getting confused. Unlike many (but not all) of the ones below, where it can be either "ergens" or "er", depending.
rhino514 wrote:I came across a list of compound verbs such as Erop uit Gaan, and it is quite difficult to find concrete translations for these verbs. without wanting to master each one, I was wondering if there are perhaps two or three from the list which are commonly used and useful to know (i´ve taken out ervan afhangen and ervan uitgaan, which i am already familiar with):

erin opgaan
eronderdoor gaan
erop afkomen
erop ingaan
eropna houden
eropuit zijn, gaan, trekken
ertegenaan gaan
ertussendoor lopen
ertussenuit knijpen
ervanaf vliegen
ervan afzien
ervanlangs geven
langs elkaar heen praten

bedankt!

rhino
There's a bunch of those that are useful, though few of them are easily translated... and the correct use of spaces in those is enough to give even a native speaker a headache. I would write erop na houden and er van langs geven, for instance, but there are some I'm really not sure about. This list is also misleading because there are some where "er" has to refer to a noun, while others contain the "er" in addition to the noun or word referring to a noun. For instance, with "erop na houden" (a fancy way of saying "to possess something"), you could say e.g. "Hij houdt er een heel leger bedienden op na" ("He has a whole army of servants"). You can neither drop the "er", nor drop the object of the sentence.

"Erop ingaan" means reacting to something someone else has said, going into the subject (note the similarity of the verb...) in more detail.

For instance: "In zijn speech vermeldde de politicus het onderwerp van belastinghervormingen even, maar hij ging er niet verder op in." = "The politician mentioned the subject of tax reform in passing in his speech, but he didn't go into it in more detail."

But also: "Ze proberen je gewoon kwaad te maken met hun beledigingen, ga er toch niet op in!" = "They're just trying to anger you with their insults, you should just ignore them!"


"Ergens van afzien" is also an important one, meaning to forego doing something, or to decline to take a certain step. Often used in judicial contexts, as you might expect, but it can also be used in less formal contexts. So that would become "Hij zag ervan af ... te doen". You can also use this with a noun instead of a verb construction, and then you lose the "er": "Hij zag af van zijn recht op..." (i.e., he had a certain right but declined to claim it).

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Re: Erop uit Gaan?

Post by Joke » Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:47 pm

Quetzal wrote:
rhino514 wrote:I saw elsewehere in this forum the sentence "hij gaat om een brood”.
Is this practically the same as "Thijs zei dat hij op een bos bloemen uitgaat "? i.e. The first sentence means "to go out for a bread" and the second means "to go out for some flowers"? So can one use bothof these constructions in such cases?
I don't know where you got your sentence with "Thijs", I'm guessing you wrote it yourself? There are several errors in it. Most relevantly here, using "op" there is impossible, but even with the more logical "om" it doesn't work. And then there's the tense problem - if the original verb is past tense, shouldn't "uitgaan" be as well?
I do know the construction "uitgaan op iets" in the meaning that Rhino mentioned here. Actually, it sounds more natural to me than "om iets gaan". The only problem I got with his sentence is the tense, as Quetzal already mentioned (should be "uitging", to match with "zei").
It's not a very common way to say things, but I can imagine myself saying something like "Ik ben zondag op sinterklaascadeautjes uitgeweest, maar ik heb niks kunnen vinden" of "Ik ga na mijn werk nog even op een cadeautje uit". (Somehow, it works best with 'cadeautjes' for me; that's also the only example I can find on google.)

Considering that Quetzal doesn't know it, it might be a typical 'Northern-Dutch' expression. Anyway, it is not really common and rather colloquial.

Joke

Edit: I think I found the source of Rhino's sentence when I was looking for the correct spelling of eropuit gaan.
The full sentence used as an example in the source is 'We hebben nog geen cadeau, maar Thijs zei dat hij op een bos bloemen uitgaat.' In this case, the present tense is actually referring to the future, so it's not really wrong, although I would prefer a 'future-word' somewhere (e.g. straks, zo, vanmiddag).
Note that this example is also about buying presents, so my intuition might be right...

rhino514
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Re: Erop uit Gaan?

Post by rhino514 » Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:45 pm

Probably northern dutch expression, not all that commonly used, sounds like one that´s nice to know, but not too terrible if I don´t retain it. Gotcha.

bedankt


rhino

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