Still Troubled by TOE in follwoing uses

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rhino514
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Still Troubled by TOE in follwoing uses

Post by rhino514 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:42 pm

Granted, I try to keep up with my Dutch by reading often and I´m aware that sometimes written language does strange things which you don´t encounter in everyday life. But I often come across sentences with TOE whilst reading such as the following:

"Een vrouw glimlachte hem vriendelijk toe."


I was taught to say "hij glimlachte naar hem" and don´t understand this other form. Is it more formal, or more used in written language?

I come across many similar sentences with TOE where it is neither the derivative of TOT, nor a separable prefix verb (i.i. toegeven), nor the meaning of motion such as in "ik gaa naar hem toe". So I don´t know what to make of such cases

I also read recently "Hij wierp hem een uitdagende blik toe."...perhaps in this case it is the "motion" meaning since throwing something at someone is similar to "going" somewhere?

any help would be appreciated

rhino

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Re: Still Troubled by TOE in follwoing uses

Post by Quetzal » Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:32 pm

rhino514 wrote:Granted, I try to keep up with my Dutch by reading often and I´m aware that sometimes written language does strange things which you don´t encounter in everyday life. But I often come across sentences with TOE whilst reading such as the following:

"Een vrouw glimlachte hem vriendelijk toe."


I was taught to say "hij glimlachte naar hem" and don´t understand this other form. Is it more formal, or more used in written language?

I come across many similar sentences with TOE where it is neither the derivative of TOT, nor a separable prefix verb (i.i. toegeven), nor the meaning of motion such as in "ik gaa naar hem toe". So I don´t know what to make of such cases

I also read recently "Hij wierp hem een uitdagende blik toe."...perhaps in this case it is the "motion" meaning since throwing something at someone is similar to "going" somewhere?

any help would be appreciated

rhino
Yeah, there's a lot of verbs with which that "toe" can be used... "glimlachte hem toe", "wierp hem een blik toe", "knikte hem toe", "sprak hem toe" of course, and pretty much any other verb of human interaction that you can do in someone's direction. The "toe" still indicates direction, though not really motion I guess. Whether it's formal or not depends a bit on the verb. "Wierp hem een blik toe" is quite neutral, while "sprak hem toe" does generally appear in a context of speaking formally or even preaching.

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Re: Still Troubled by TOE in follwoing uses

Post by ngonyama » Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:50 am

Interesting!

In some of these examples "toe" is the separable adverb of a separable verb: toelachen, toespreken, toegaan, but "toeglimlachen", hmm, it looks awkward to me and google gave me only 88 hits for the unseparated infinitive... If at all it exists, it is pretty rare.

I think this may reflect how separable verbs originated in the first place: from the fusion of a separate prepositional adverb (in, over, mee, toe, heen, af) plus a verb. In English this fusion never took place. "to go in" never became "to *ingo". In Dutch "toe" never completely fused with "glimlachen" either apparently.

As far as the meaning of the prepositional adverb "toe" is concerned it expresses something similar as the English word "toward". In can be a motion but usually it is more an aim or direction.

It also has a rather positive, affirmative connotation. E.g. toestemmen means to agree, to consent, toenemen to increase and "zij lacht hem toe" implies (great) friendliness as opposed to "zij lacht hem uit" which is very negative.

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Re: Still Troubled by TOE in follwoing uses

Post by Bert » Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:53 pm

ngonyama wrote:In some of these examples "toe" is the separable adverb of a separable verb: toelachen, toespreken, toegaan, but "toeglimlachen", hmm, it looks awkward to me and google gave me only 88 hits for the unseparated infinitive... If at all it exists, it is pretty rare.
Geef je dan voorkeur aan 'Eva glimlachte tegen Jan' boven 'Eva glimlachte Jan toe'?

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Re: Still Troubled by TOE in follwoing uses

Post by Quetzal » Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:50 pm

Bert wrote:
ngonyama wrote:In some of these examples "toe" is the separable adverb of a separable verb: toelachen, toespreken, toegaan, but "toeglimlachen", hmm, it looks awkward to me and google gave me only 88 hits for the unseparated infinitive... If at all it exists, it is pretty rare.
Geef je dan de voorkeur aan 'Eva glimlachte tegen Jan' boven 'Eva glimlachte Jan toe'?
Nee, ngonyama bedoelde gewoon dat "toeglimlachen" niet bestaat als een scheidbaar werkwoord. Niettemin wordt "... glimlachte ... toe" vaak gebruikt.

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Re: Still Troubled by TOE in follwoing uses

Post by rhino514 » Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:23 pm

Je hebt gelijk, ik wilde zeggen "glimlachen tegen" niet "glimlachen naar". Dat is precies wat ik me afvraag: Betekenen "ik glimlach tegen Jan" en "ik glimlach Jan toe" hetzelfde? en welke van die word vaaker gebruikt?

En is "ik wierp hem een blik" sonder TOE fout?

groetjes

rhino

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Re: Still Troubled by TOE in follwoing uses

Post by ngonyama » Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:15 pm

rhino514 wrote:Je hebt gelijk, ik wilde zeggen "glimlachen tegen" niet "glimlachen naar". Dat is precies wat ik me afvraag: Betekenen "ik glimlach tegen Jan" en "ik glimlach Jan toe" hetzelfde? en welke van die word vaaker gebruikt?

En is "ik wierp hem een blik" sonder TOE fout?

groetjes

rhino

"ik glimlach tegen Jan" en "ik glimlach Jan toe" hetzelfde? Hmm, het laatste klinkt wat amoureuzer dan het eerste zou ik zeggen.

Ja, "ik wierp hem een blik" is fout omdat "werpen" alleen een lijdend voorwerp draagt, geen meewerkend zoals "hem" (transitief). Toewerpen kan wel twee voorwerpen hebben (ditransitief)

Werpen heeft alleen een lijdende vorm met worden:

Ik werp een blik
Een blik werd door mij geworpen (blik= a can, as in canned food)

Toewerpen heeft ook een pseudopassief met krijgen:

Ik werp hem een blik toe
Een blik wordt hem door mij toegeworpen
Hij kreeg van mij een blik toegeworpen

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