If I were an enquiring Dutch learner living in Flanders, I think I would like to know the forms as they are used rather than the theoretical ones... considering that it's strictly a spoken thing (okay, well, and now online...) to begin with, one wonders what the point of knowing the official rules is.Bieneke wrote:Thanks, Dirk, for your explanation.
I think you (Dirk and Quetzal) are talking about two different things: How it should be and how it is used. In the e-ANS, I have not found anything about the past tense forms connected with 'ge' or 'gij' but I did find some confirmation of what Dirk wrote on website of the Taalunie (official Language Union):
Verleden tijd onregelmatige werkwoorden: http://woordenlijst.org/leidraad/11/5/
Gij kwam/gij kwaamt: http://taaladvies.net/taal/advies/vraag/344
Gij had/gij hadt http://taaladvies.net/taal/advies/vraag/343
There really are official rules for conjugating verbs after 'ge' or 'gij' .
I think that the fact that people often violate these rules does not immediately disqualify them as 'regional'. I thought it was quite a funny remark as the very use of 'ge' and 'gij' is already considered regional. Below, I copied a paragprah from http://taaladvies.net/taal/advies/vraag/344:
De Taalunie wrote:Het gebruik van ge/gij behoort tot de verheven stijl of is regionaal bepaald (het wordt in grote delen van België en in het zuiden van Nederland, vooral in Noord-Brabant gebruikt). De daarbij horende verledentijdsvormen van het werkwoord gelden als archaïsch. In enkele gevallen kan bovendien verwarring optreden met de vorm van de tegenwoordige tijd van een ander werkwoord: ge braakt (van braken), ge zaagt (van zagen), ge staakt (van staken). Om deze redenen worden de bedoelde combinaties vaak vermeden of worden de werkwoordsvormen ten onrechte vervangen door die welke bij u horen (ge kwam, ge zag enz.).
I have no opinion about whether it is useful to learn these rules. I suppose you can perfectly do without this knowledge but as an enquiring Dutch learner living in Flanders, you may wonder if there are any rules or guidelines for using 'ge' and 'gij'. After all, you hear it every day but there is no mention of it in your grammar books and your NT2 teacher tells you it is not an important thing to learn. If I were that student, Just being told there are no rules (because they are archaic or outdated), would not really satisfy me.
Especially when, in the one text where it IS considered acceptable to use them in writing, i.e. the Bible, these official rules are entirely ignored: apart from the few exceptions among which "Gij waart", the Bible simply uses the normal past tenses.