Double je?

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A pronoun replaces a noun or another pronoun. E.g. 'he', 'which', or 'her'. There are different types of pronouns: personal, possessive, indefinite, relative... You can post your questions about Dutch pronouns here.
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meertaligheid
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Double je?

Post by meertaligheid » Sat Jul 13, 2013 5:58 pm

I hope I am asking in the correct sub-forum.

In my one book an example is given, "Hoe voel je je nu na de bevalling?"

I understand the sentence, but often see je je twice in a row.

Why is this?

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Re: Double je?

Post by Joke » Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:35 pm

The two je's are two different words that both get reduced to je when they are not stressed.
In full, stressed form, the sentence would read (but that sounds rather unnaturally): "How voel jij jezelf nu na de bevalling?" (How do you feel yourself now, after the delivery?). The first je is the subject of the sentence (you), the second je is the reflexive pronoun (~yourself).

Many verbs in Dutch are reflexive, that means that they have an extra pronoun that refers back to the subject. Sometimes you can translate this reflexive pronoun with yourself (myself, himself, etc) in English, but often that's impossible. Voelen is one of these reflexive verbs.
Without reflexive pronoun, voelen refers to one of the five senses, the kind of feeling that you do with your fingertips or your skin:
Voel eens hoe zacht deze trui is.
Als je wilt weten of iemand koorst heeft, moet je even voelen of zijn voorhoofd warm is.

Voelen with reflexive pronoun refers to internal feelings, emotions:
Hij voelt zich niet lekker.
Hoe voel je je?
Ik voel me een beetje verdrietig.

Other reflexive verbs are for example (reflexive pronouns in bold):
zich schamen (to be ashamed) - Je moet je schamen
zich vergissen (to err, to make a mistake) - Ik vergis me nooit.
zich haasten (to hurry) - We moeten ons haasten als we nog op tijd in het theater willen zijn.
zich herinneren (to remember) - Herinner je je je oma nog? (with 3 je's! subject (jij), reflexive (always je), possesive (jouw). All three are reduced to je when not stressed.)

See also this grammar page for more information.

meertaligheid
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Re: Double je?

Post by meertaligheid » Sat Jul 13, 2013 7:37 pm

Thanks for the detailed explanation, but I don't understand what they mean by stressed or unstressed.

Do you mean je/jij?

Edited: Could you show me some examples of what it looks like if it's stressed?

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Re: Double je?

Post by Quetzal » Sat Jul 13, 2013 7:51 pm

meertaligheid wrote:Thanks for the detailed explanation, but I don't understand what they mean by stressed or unstressed.

Do you mean je/jij?

Edited: Could you show me some examples of what it looks like if it's stressed?
Jij, jou, jouw and arguably jezelf can all be replaced by the unstressed "je":

Jij bent slim / Je bent slim
Ik zie jou / Ik zie je
Jouw fiets is rood / Je fiets is rood
Jij wast jezelf / Je wast je

The stressed forms are used when you want to put especial stress, or create a contrast - in certain particular contexts, the stressed form will be used 100% of the time, but for the most part you can use both, and generally the unstressed form is used if there is no particular need for stress.

Some other pronouns also have unstressed forms (mij/ mijzelf: me; zij: ze; wij: we; hen: ze), but "je" is the only one that can replace four different pronouns - none of the other possessive pronouns have an unstressed form.

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Re: Double je?

Post by meertaligheid » Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:01 pm

Jouw fiets is rood = YOUR bike is red; emphasis on YOUR.

Je fiets is rood. = Your bike is red.

Ik zie JOU. = Emphasis on YOU, as opposed to Ik zie je, I see you.

I hope I am on the right track here.

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Re: Double je?

Post by Joke » Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:22 pm

Yes, that's correct.
If you say "JOUW fiets is rood", the sentence will probably continue with something like "maar MIJN fiets is blauw", indicating a strong contrast between JOUW en MIJN.
If you stress something else in the sentence, you don't need the stressed pronoun: Je fiets is ROOD, niet BLAUW.

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Re: Double je?

Post by meertaligheid » Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:36 pm

It's not correct to say, Ik heb dit cadeau voor jij gekocht?

It must be je or jouw.

Thank you for all the help. Much appreciated!

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Re: Double je?

Post by Quetzal » Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:45 pm

meertaligheid wrote:It's not correct to say, Ik heb dit cadeau voor jij gekocht?

It must be je or jouw.

Thank you for all the help. Much appreciated!
Just for the sake of making things harder... ;)

This is actually a pretty good example of a case where context pretty much forces you to take one or the other.

With the "Ik heb dit cadeau voor jou gekocht", the stressed form is really unavoidable - the word order puts a stress on the "you" part anyway, so then you also need the stressed form. "Ik heb dit cadeau gekocht voor je", with stress more on "dit cadeau", is possible, however.

Definitely not "jij", no, that's just grammatically incorrect; "jij" can only ever be used for the subject of a verb.

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