...Dat.....Het....

[voornaamwoorden]
A pronoun replaces a noun or another pronoun. E.g. 'he', 'which', or 'her'. There are different types of pronouns: personal, possessive, indefinite, relative... You can post your questions about Dutch pronouns here.
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luvdutch
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...Dat.....Het....

Post by luvdutch » Thu Jul 02, 2015 12:58 pm

Hello :)

here is two questions , can anyone help please!

'Moet je geen groente hebben? '
--'Dat haal ik op de markt.'

question 1: groente is a de-woord and the second sentence use 'dat' to refer to de groente instead of using 'die'. why?
(my guess is that 'die' refers precisely the specific vegetables someone wants to buy, but 'dat' not. but it is still not clear what role 'dat' plays in sentences like this. )


question 2:
'Hoe komt het dat de bevolking stijgt?'

why is 'het' used here? there is a expression in dutch 'hoe komt dat' (how come?), why put an extra 'het' here?


thank you ! :)

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Re: ...Dat.....Het....

Post by ngonyama » Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:45 pm

luvdutch wrote:Hello :)

here is two questions , can anyone help please!

'Moet je geen groente hebben? '
--'Dat haal ik op de markt.'

question 1: groente is a de-woord and the second sentence use 'dat' to refer to de groente instead of using 'die'. why?
(my guess is that 'die' refers precisely the specific vegetables someone wants to buy, but 'dat' not. but it is still not clear what role 'dat' plays in sentences like this. )

Using "dat" is simply wrong here. It should be "die". If you want to be less specific it should be something like "Dat soort dingen haal ik op de markt", but yes people sometimes get sloppy and omit the "soort dingen" part.


question 2:
'Hoe komt het dat de bevolking stijgt?'

why is 'het' used here? there is a expression in dutch 'hoe komt dat' (how come?), why put an extra 'het' here?

"het" is an indefinite pronoun here, like "it" is English; a dummy subject that doesn't refer to anything in particular. It is only there because Dutch grammar requires some sort of subject to be present.

"Dat" in your first sentence is a conjuction, not a pronoun. It initiates the dependent clause ".. dat de bevolking stijgt".

In your second example "dat" is a (demonstrative) pronoun that refers back to something else that was said before. Or you could say a non-dummy version of the dummy subject "het" in the first sentence. The discourse could have been something like: "Je ziet er moe uit! Hoe komt dat?" Here "dat" represents something concrete: the fact that someone looked tired.


thank you ! :)

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Re: ...Dat.....Het....

Post by Dolo » Thu Jul 02, 2015 10:00 pm

ngonyama wrote:
luvdutch wrote:Hello :)

here is two questions , can anyone help please!

'Moet je geen groente hebben? '
--'Dat haal ik op de markt.'

question 1: groente is a de-woord and the second sentence use 'dat' to refer to de groente instead of using 'die'. why?
(my guess is that 'die' refers precisely the specific vegetables someone wants to buy, but 'dat' not. but it is still not clear what role 'dat' plays in sentences like this. )

Using "dat" is simply wrong here. It should be "die". If you want to be less specific it should be something like "Dat soort dingen haal ik op de markt", but yes people sometimes get sloppy and omit the "soort dingen" part.
Please excuse my interruption here, but is 'dat' really that wrong in this context? I thought that it can be used for refering to any subject mentioned before as in:

'Ik heb je schoenen gebracht"
'Dat is goed"

"Je moet je medicijnen altijd inemen"
"Ja, dat zal ik doen"

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Re: ...Dat.....Het....

Post by Crecker » Thu Jul 02, 2015 10:38 pm

Dolo wrote:Please excuse my interruption here, but is 'dat' really that wrong in this context? I thought that it can be used for refering to any subject mentioned before as in:

'Ik heb je schoenen gebracht"
'Dat is goed"

"Je moet je medicijnen altijd inemen"
"Ja, dat zal ik doen"
Dolo, I think that your examples have a subtle difference. In fact in both cases "dat" refers to the action of bringing shoes and taking medicines.

1. Dat is goed (dat je mijn schoenen hebt gebracht).
2. 'Het nemen van mijn medicijnen' zal ik doen.

'Nemen' and 'brengen' are het-woorden (they are verbs used as subjects: het nemen, het brengen), therefore 'dat'.

In luvdutch's example, 'dat' certainly refers to 'groene', which is a de-woord though. 'Die' should be the right choise, as ngonyama said before.
ImageImage
Geef me een kus,
Geef me een kus,
Geef me een kus,
En vlug, voor de laatste bus...

luvdutch
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Re: ...Dat.....Het....

Post by luvdutch » Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:54 am

ngonyama wrote:
luvdutch wrote:Hello :)

here is two questions , can anyone help please!

'Moet je geen groente hebben? '
--'Dat haal ik op de markt.'

question 1: groente is a de-woord and the second sentence use 'dat' to refer to de groente instead of using 'die'. why?
(my guess is that 'die' refers precisely the specific vegetables someone wants to buy, but 'dat' not. but it is still not clear what role 'dat' plays in sentences like this. )

Using "dat" is simply wrong here. It should be "die". If you want to be less specific it should be something like "Dat soort dingen haal ik op de markt", but yes people sometimes get sloppy and omit the "soort dingen" part.


question 2:
'Hoe komt het dat de bevolking stijgt?'

why is 'het' used here? there is a expression in dutch 'hoe komt dat' (how come?), why put an extra 'het' here?

"het" is an indefinite pronoun here, like "it" is English; a dummy subject that doesn't refer to anything in particular. It is only there because Dutch grammar requires some sort of subject to be present.

"Dat" in your first sentence is a conjuction, not a pronoun. It initiates the dependent clause ".. dat de bevolking stijgt".

In your second example "dat" is a (demonstrative) pronoun that refers back to something else that was said before. Or you could say a non-dummy version of the dummy subject "het" in the first sentence. The discourse could have been something like: "Je ziet er moe uit! Hoe komt dat?" Here "dat" represents something concrete: the fact that someone looked tired.


thank you ! :)

Your answers help greatly! Thank you very much!! :) :) :)
Last edited by luvdutch on Fri Jul 03, 2015 2:12 am, edited 4 times in total.

luvdutch
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Re: ...Dat.....Het....

Post by luvdutch » Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:57 am

Dolo wrote:
ngonyama wrote:
luvdutch wrote:Hello :)

here is two questions , can anyone help please!

'Moet je geen groente hebben? '
--'Dat haal ik op de markt.'

question 1: groente is a de-woord and the second sentence use 'dat' to refer to de groente instead of using 'die'. why?
(my guess is that 'die' refers precisely the specific vegetables someone wants to buy, but 'dat' not. but it is still not clear what role 'dat' plays in sentences like this. )

Using "dat" is simply wrong here. It should be "die". If you want to be less specific it should be something like "Dat soort dingen haal ik op de markt", but yes people sometimes get sloppy and omit the "soort dingen" part.
Please excuse my interruption here, but is 'dat' really that wrong in this context? I thought that it can be used for refering to any subject mentioned before as in:

'Ik heb je schoenen gebracht"
'Dat is goed"

"Je moet je medicijnen altijd inemen"
"Ja, dat zal ik doen"

yeah, i thought that 'dat' is universal too, same like the use of 'that' in english.

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Re: ...Dat.....Het....

Post by BrutallyFrank » Fri Jul 03, 2015 8:52 am

Dolo wrote:
Please excuse my interruption here, but is 'dat' really that wrong in this context? I thought that it can be used for refering to any subject mentioned before as in:

'Ik heb je schoenen gebracht"
'Dat is goed"

"Je moet je medicijnen altijd innemen"
"Ja, dat zal ik doen"
In the first sentence 'dat' doesn't refer to schoenen, but to 'het brengen van schoenen'. In the second sentence it refers to 'het innemen van medicijnen'.

Ngonyama already explained that:
In your second example "dat" is a (demonstrative) pronoun that refers back to something else that was said before. Or you could say a non-dummy version of the dummy subject "het" in the first sentence. The discourse could have been something like: "Je ziet er moe uit! Hoe komt dat?" Here "dat" represents something concrete: the fact that someone looked tired.
"Moenie worrie nie, alles sal reg kom" (maar hy het nie gesê wanneer nie!)

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Re: ...Dat.....Het....

Post by Dolo » Fri Jul 03, 2015 10:58 am

yeah, ok, now I see it, thanks!

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