I am university educated & so frustrated with inburgering!

If you have any plans to move to Holland or if you have already settled there, this is the place to discuss the Inburgeringsexamen ('integration' exam for immigrants), NT2 (Dutch as a second language), and studying at Flemish or Dutch schools and universities.
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I am university educated & so frustrated with inburgering!

Post by dutchsucksballs » Tue May 11, 2010 6:18 pm

I have been here from the States for about a year. I take inburgering courses at ROC.

Here are my frustrations with this stupid a$$ programme

1) We were given computer work to do at ROC & I have since done it 4 times over & so I thought I was ready for the exam

2) Out of nowhere, the teacher tells me I have to go the the website www.itslearning.com & I have to do some oefenings there. I was frustrated at being given workload in bits & pieces. She should of given me that right at the beginning.

3) She said I'm ready for the exam but wont provide an exam date as she says SHE DOESNT KNOW when the exam is. How you gonna teach a course without a scheduled exam date before hand?

4) Now, it's been a New York minute & I'm so dismotivated to go to these courses since the lack of an EXACT exam date was the final straw for me.

5)What I basically wanna know is, is there a way I can schedule the exam for myself? As I can no longer sit & just put my future in their hands.

Please pardon my French everyone, I'm normally not this rude but I am so fed up of these stupid courses. I almost forgot to mention that everything goes so effin slow for instance, IMO, this inburgering is not supposed to last more than 3 months but why is this ish taking so long?

So basically, I want to know if I can register myself for the inburgering exam as well as any other info I need. I live in the Netherlands by the way!

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Re: I am university educated & so frustrated with inburgering!

Post by dutchsucksballs » Tue May 11, 2010 6:28 pm

Come on folks! What's the fastest way to learn dutch? Any intensive courses ? Anything in the Nijmegen area?

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Re: I am university educated & so frustrated with inburgering!

Post by adappel » Wed May 12, 2010 7:47 am

As I have been arguing before and elsewhere: IMMIGRANTS WHO HAD MORE THAN 10 YEARS OF NORMAL EDUCATION IN THEIR HOME-LAND SHOULD NOT FOLLOW, AND SHOULD NOT ACCEPT ANY INBURGERINGSCURSUS!

These "inburgeringscursussen" have been developed for non-educated and LOW-EDUCATED immigrants. Immirants who come from western countries are not supposed to enter these courses.

If you had more education than ten years refuse everything except a course that prepares you for Staatsexamen NT2, from the beginning.
Many persons at the "gemeente" and even many officials who organize the intakes in the schools have other interests than the immigrants have who want to learn Dutch.

If you need more specific advice, please send me your personal message.
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Re: I am university educated & so frustrated with inburgering!

Post by Bieneke » Thu May 13, 2010 11:03 am

I am so sorry to hear that! I wholeheartedly agree with Adappel: high educated students should be advised to do the NT2 Staatsexamen, not the Inburgeringsexamen.

You can register for the NT2 Staatsexamen yourself at the website of DUO-IB-groep (part of the Ministry of Education). Here you can read the exam dates, fees, and other practical information: http://www.ib-groep.nl/particulieren/ex ... e_taal.asp.

The fastest way to learn Dutch is probably a university course that prepares foreign students for the NT2 Staatsexamen II. These are usually intensive courses, and they are not cheap! See e.g. Dutch language courses at Radbout University (Nijmegen): http://www.ru.nl/radboudintolanguages/t ... ands_voor/.
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Re: I am university educated & so frustrated with inburgering!

Post by dutchsucksballs » Thu May 13, 2010 3:09 pm

Thanks a lot for the replies! And yes I just checked the links thanks to Bieneke.

I'm a lil confused about this NT2 thing. I get the feeling NT2 is one long course? But yet you have level A1, A2, B1, B2 & C1? Are these levels mini routes to the NT2 exam? Or are those just two separate things altogether?

I feel like kicking myself in the stomach. I went to the Radbound website & they offer level A2 in three months, for 1000+Euros, inburgering cursis took me thrice that time but it was free. So much for the time value of money. $$ is time. Had I known, I would have coughed up the $$ & called it a day, would have saved me a lot of time.

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Re: I am university educated & so frustrated with inburgering!

Post by Quetzal » Thu May 13, 2010 3:29 pm

dutchsucksballs wrote:Thanks a lot for the replies! And yes I just checked the links thanks to Bieneke.

I'm a lil confused about this NT2 thing. I get the feeling NT2 is one long course? But yet you have level A1, A2, B1, B2 & C1? Are these levels mini routes to the NT2 exam? Or are those just two separate things altogether?

I feel like kicking myself in the stomach. I went to the Radbound website & they offer level A2 in three months, for 1000+Euros, inburgering cursis took me thrice that time but it was free. So much for the time value of money. $$ is time. Had I known, I would have coughed up the $$ & called it a day, would have saved me a lot of time.
The A1, A2 and so on are Europe-wide levels of proficiency in language learning - each of them has a given definition of things someone at that level should be able to do in the language they are learning. It's useful for people who move from one country to another and want to pick up their language learning where they left off.

So you will have to figure out somehow, through tests online or at the university, which level you're currently at, and then work on getting to a higher level. For the NT2 Staatsexamen II, you need to have the level B2, I understand. C1 and C2 are still higher levels of proficiency, somebody who is at C2 in a given language is really perfectly fluent basically.

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Re: I am university educated & so frustrated with inburgering!

Post by adappel » Thu May 13, 2010 6:10 pm

If you need advice about language levels, if you want the right course that fits to you, just send me a personal message.
I can help you.
I can also help you to pass the exam that you want or need...
Do not hesitate to ask.

Never trust the gemeente or the school where you get your intake.
Please know your rights and interests!

In many cases immigrants loose their time and energy en get frustrated!
In many cases the rights and interests of immigrants are not corresponding with those of the school or the gemeente.
I can help you.

Good luck!
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Re: I am university educated & so frustrated with inburgering!

Post by dutchsucksballs » Thu May 13, 2010 11:59 pm

WTF? Are you kiddin me? This goes as far as level C2? I thought level C1 was the last level?

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Re: I am university educated & so frustrated with inburgering!

Post by Quetzal » Fri May 14, 2010 12:47 am

dutchsucksballs wrote:WTF? Are you kiddin me? This goes as far as level C2? I thought level C1 was the last level?
Dude (edit: er, sorry, lady ;) ). Calm down. :P Why does it bother you that it goes as far as level C2, when the exam doesn't go beyond B2 in any case?

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Re: I am university educated & so frustrated with inburgering!

Post by dutchsucksballs » Fri May 14, 2010 1:07 am

Thanks boo, but it bothers me because like I stated before, I wanna be a lawyer (maybe?) and I believe to stand my ground with Dutch pple in a court room I need level C2, now thats a long time coming!

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Re: I am university educated & so frustrated with inburgering!

Post by Quetzal » Fri May 14, 2010 1:13 am

dutchsucksballs wrote:Thanks boo, but it bothers me because like I stated before, I wanna be a lawyer (maybe?) and I believe to stand my ground with Dutch pple in a court room I need level C2, now thats a long time coming!
Eh, those levels are just levels, you know. You need to be fluent in Dutch for that, yeah, but what does it matter if they call that level C1 or C2? I'm taking C1 level classes in Spanish at the moment, and really, once you're at that kind of level, or even at B2, becoming more proficient is going to come through interacting with native speakers and just spending time in a country where they speak that language, more than through classes.

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Re: I am university educated & so frustrated with inburgering!

Post by dutchsucksballs » Fri May 14, 2010 1:29 am

Thanks boo! So what level you think one needs to be a lawyer & why are you studying Espanol in Netherlands? LOL!

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Re: I am university educated & so frustrated with inburgering!

Post by Quetzal » Sun May 16, 2010 12:38 am

dutchsucksballs wrote:Thanks boo! So what level you think one needs to be a lawyer & why are you studying Espanol in Netherlands? LOL!
In Belgium, actually. As for why, I dunno, it's interesting and I like languages? :P

As I said elsewhere, starting a university program tends to require level B2, but you'll have to check the program to make sure, or the university might have its own tests. Once you got into such a program, I would assume that you'd get fluent enough to function as a lawyer by the time you graduated.

Let me stress again that these levels are simply an indication of how fluent you are in a given language. They are not degrees - you can get certificates asserting that you've reached a given level if you want, I believe, but an employer is highly unlikely to look at that, they'll just test your Dutch skills during the job interview instead. And that also means that it's perfectly possible to improve in levels without taking any classes, if you just practice Dutch in real life situations and learn new things that way.

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Re: I am university educated & so frustrated with inburgering!

Post by divinemissm » Tue Jul 13, 2010 3:19 pm

Oh my god - how I *WISH* I would have found this forum before signing up for the free courses through my gemeente. At first I was registered in the NT2 but I then I started working so I downgraded to inburgering cause I would have limited amount of time to study outside of work.

Both courses (NT2 and inburgering) were absolutely *rubbish* and I encourage anyone that is moving here not to take the free courses from the gemeente. Do the study on your own or take a real course (I plan to take the Delftse Method courses in the fall).

I share everyone's frustration with inburgering. I was the most highly educated there by a long shot (PhD) and it was exhausting to go to class for 6h a week on top of working 40h a week with people with a few years of primary school. Frustrating doesn't even start to cover it. In the end, I got permission from the gemeente to finish my coursework from home cause it was just too much.

I would have easily qualified for a highly skilled migrant status had I had a job that paid enough according to the IND's requirements. Apparently with this programme, you don't have to do the inburgerings course and you get all sorts of tax breaks. If you don't earn enough like I did, consider applying for the highly educated migrant permit. I didn't know about this particular programme until it was too late. I hope this saves you a lot of frustration that myself and dutchsucksballs went through/is still going through.

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Re: I am university educated & so frustrated with inburgering!

Post by Sabina » Wed Jul 14, 2010 11:41 am

Hallo allemaal,

Wie kan mij helpen om over drempel te gaan? Al heel lang wou ik zo graag een universitaire opleiding doen, ik heb mijn best gedaan om opleidingen volgen en diploma's te gaan halen die me toegang geven tot een universitaire opleiding. Het is me gelukt en ik werd ingelot. Helaas werd ik afgewezen, omdat ik de taal niet goed genoeg beheerste om een opleiding op uni niveau te gaan volgen. Zij zeiden dat mijn papieren en diploma's goed zijn, maar mijn taalvaardigheden zijn niet voldoende om dat te doen. Iemand zei: ga eerst je taal verbeteren en kom dan terug. Dat deed en doet me nog steeds zeer pijn. :-( Helaas tot de dag van vandaag is het mij niet gelukt om dit probleem op te lossen. De reden hiervan was/is dat ikzelf in mijn eentje heel wenig effect op deze situatie kon hebben.

Kijk, ze hebben me afgewezen van de Uni, daarna ging ik me aanmelden bij een Roc om vwo-6 te gaan volgen alleen om mijn taal op een hoge niveau te brengen. De docenten die toen mijn verhaal hoorden,zeiden dat het heel jammer is om vwo-6 te gaan volgen en zoveel vakken volgen alleen vanwege mijn taal. Toen ging ik opzoek naar een taalcursus op een hoge niveau, meesten zeiden dat er geen een taalcursus bestaat waar ik mijn taalniveau kan verbeteren. Iedereen zei dat de taalcursusen zijn meestal voor mensen die de taal nog niet kennen of op een lage niveau zijn, niet voor iemand die op uni wilt gaan studeren. De enige optie was dat ik werk moest gaan zoeken. Dat heb ik gedaan, maar helaas heb geen werk gekregen, omdat ze iemand wilden die de taal "perfect" beheerst. Voor hun was ik jong, slim, flexibel,netjes en bla bla bla zoals ze het tegen mij zeiden, maar niet een vlotte babbelaar die ze graag wilden aannemen. Omdat ik geen werk heb gevonden, had ik ook geen inkomen. Na een lange tijd heb ik op een site gezien dat er wel intensieve taaltrainingen zijn, ik was zo blij dat ik wou bijna vliegen, maar dat goede gevoel verdween ook gelijk toen ik de prijzen zag en jah zonder inkomen hoe kon ik z'n hoge bedragen betalen om mijn taal op een academische niveau te brengen. Helaas is het mij ook niet gelukt om iemand te vinden die bereid is om mij vrijwillig les te geven of weinig geld krijgen om mij te helpen.

In die tijd mijn taal is ook weer achteruit gegaan i.p.v om beter te worden, omdat ik geen contacten had/heb en bijna nooit praat. Nu ben ik zo onzeker over mezelf geworden dat ik niet meer durf te gaan praten en mijn mond open doen. De enige reden die mij heeft aangemoedigd om hier te schrijven is, dat ik weet dat op dit forum wordt er niemand uitgelachen vanwege de taalfouten die hij/zij maakt. Juist wordt je hier goed behandelt, je fouten worden gecorrigeert en je krijgt nog goede adviezen van de meeste die hier zijn. En dat doet me goed. Nou, dit was mijn verhaal.

Mijn vraag is nu aan U/Je/Jullie: is er iemand die mij hiermee kan helpen, advies geven en/of beetje de weg wijzen zodat ik op de juiste pad terecht kan komen?

Alle adviezen, vragen, opmerkingen en tips zijn welkom.

Groetjes,

Sabina

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