I am university educated & so frustrated with inburgering!

If you have any plans to move to Holland or if you have already settled there, this is the place to discuss the Inburgeringsexamen ('integration' exam for immigrants), NT2 (Dutch as a second language), and studying at Flemish or Dutch schools and universities.
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Re: I am university educated & so frustrated with inburgering!

Post by adappel » Thu Jul 15, 2010 8:29 am

Hi Sabina

Ik kan je advies geven. Je kunt me het beste een pb sturen met meer persoonlijke info over je. Over je achtergronden, vooropleiding, plannen in Nederland.
Als je in Nederland wilt studeren aan een universiteit zul je Staatsexamen nt2, programma II moeten doen. Maar dan ben je er nog niet, want dat niveau garandeert geen succesvolle studie. Het is een minimum-eis.

Als je precies omschrijft wat je wilt bereiken, kan ik je beter adviseren.

Succes!
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Re: I am university educated & so frustrated with inburgering!

Post by Sabina » Fri Jul 16, 2010 12:46 am

Beste Adappel,

Bedankt voor uw moeite en de reactie. Zoals u mij vroeg, heb ik net een PB naar u gestuurd. Daarin heb ik meer over mijn prive situatie uitgelegd. Ik hoop dat het voldoende zou zijn, zo niet dan hoor ik het graag van u.

Groetjes van Sabina

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Re: I am university educated & so frustrated with inburgering!

Post by LaProfesora » Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:36 pm

Hallo!

Is anyone still actively posting in this thread?

I'm slowly, painfully going INSANE in my inburgeringscursus.

I can completely relate to the original poster of this conversation. I have two university degrees, AND one of them
is a LINGUISTICS Degree, so you can imagine just how completely FRUSTRATING it is to sit in a class that is NOT geared
toward higher level thinking skills (not to mention GRAMMAR, sentence structure, syntax or for god's sake some
verb conjugation charts!)....

Oh yes, I should mention that the other degree is in Education. And I TEACH foreign languages for a living! The
inburgeringscursus is the definition of insanity as a professional language instructor.
The complete ridiculousness of me being required to take this cursus offends me on a professional (and personal!) level.

So, in short; if anyone is still posting here: HELP!
Seriously, I don't want to have to go insane in this class.

Let me be very clear:
I want to learn DUTCH! Not be stuck in this inane, unsuitable, joke of a language course. It has completely demotivated me
to study Dutch in my free time because then I have to go to inburgering and be bored out of my mind when I could be using my time doing something more constructive with my life.

HELP!

Thank you!
Sarah

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Re: I am university educated & so frustrated with inburgering!

Post by adappel » Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:27 pm

Hi Sarah

I agree.
I warned many 'nieuwkomers' to escape from the inburgeringscursus.
The inburgeringsexam is not meant to be for higher educated persons.
The exam will be abolished next year anyway and it will be replaced.
I hope that you can still escape from the present programm, try to convince your school that you can do Staatsexamen NT2 in stead.
This should have been your target from the beginning.

I wish you all the best.
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Re: I am university educated & so frustrated with inburgering!

Post by LaProfesora » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:45 pm

I don't know what to do anymore.

I was told that I didn't have to do the portfolio, and then today found out that they changed the rules again and I DO have to do it. And then found out that after the New Year they're totally changing everything again. And who knows what the new program will be like?

Staatsexamen NT2-- how would I pass that if I can hardly speak Dutch? Do they provide ACTUAL Dutch language lessons??

ARGH. I'm so frustrated! HOW do you get out of this stupid course??


Sarah

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Re: I am university educated & so frustrated with inburgering!

Post by adappel » Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:15 pm

Hi LaProfessora
And others: I have good news! For you and everybody -
NOBODY needs to do the portfolio anymore if you will/can do the inburgeringsexam in 2013, because the PORTFOLIO will be ABOLISHED in 2013.
Please contact your school and tell them that you can/will/want to do the NEW inburgeringsexam in 2013. Without portfolio!!!
Of course: many schools/teachers/gemeentes seem NOT to be informed about this, or they do not want to be disturbed by new rules.
But this new rule is in the interest of many persons like LaProfessora.
Do not give up, use my name (many teachers/institutes know about me) and use this link:
http://www.linkedin.com/groups/Nieuwe-i ... mr_4482146
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Re: I am university educated & so frustrated with inburgering!

Post by ngonyama » Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:29 pm

Bebachsjid Sabina,

Wat een verbijsterend verhaal... Ik schaam me er een beetje voor. Je geschreven Nederlands komt op mij namelijk over als een heel vlotte babbel... Is dit alleen maar een kwestie van uitspraak of zo? We hebben hier namelijk in onze universiteit (NCSU) Perzische grad students die heel wat slechter Engels schrijven dan jij Nederlands... Ik kan me goed voorstellen dat dit razend frustrerend moet zijn en weet verder ook niet hoe je te helpen.

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Re: I am university educated & so frustrated with inburgering!

Post by Lynn » Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:20 pm

I can understand the frustration with the Inburgering system too. It happened to me, but in the end I just went with the flow. In the end, I saw it more as a socializing time, not for study. Make new friends from different cultures, or just go there to look at how other people live their lives - there are Somalis mostly (at least in my class), Middle East people, Chinese, Polish, Thai, Russian etc people and it is an eye-opening experience.

A good book for learning Dutch is essential, and you can always get it at bol.com or amazon.co.uk. Choose your own book and learn on your own as an alternative. That was what I did at home. At class, I socialized, drank een kopje koffie and it was very gezellig.

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Re: I am university educated & so frustrated with inburgering!

Post by LaProfesora » Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:28 am

Ad Apel,

Is there a website that tells me exactly which questions will be on the EPE and KNS exams?

After being yanked around by the gemeente and inburgering school I'm attending, I have finally decided that
the fastest way out of inburgering is to just take the exams and be DONE with it all. (The gemeente told me
they could get me into an advanced class and then changed their minds. SO frustrating.)

I'm signed up for the TGN at the end of November and will be taking the EPE and KNS in December.
The Agens instructors have given me some practice questions for the KNS (that's another long ordeal to actually
GET any of this information! argh!), but the other students who have taken the KNS and failed have
told me that the questions they practiced are NOT on the exam and the questions were actually much
more difficult.

I just want to be prepared so I only take the KNS and EPE ONCE.
I appreciate any advice you have to offer.
Thank you!

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Re: I am university educated & so frustrated with inburgering!

Post by adappel » Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:30 am

All questions are secret. You can practice through here:
http://www.inburgeren.nl/inburgeraar/ex ... xamens.asp

If you need more advice, please contact me through
adappel at gmail dot com
or try to visit me in Aerdenhout. (023).

i can do assessements with you through the internet for TGN as well.
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Re: I am university educated & so frustrated with inburgering!

Post by miek2 » Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:20 pm

Hello all,

I am in the same situation. I have a master degree and have been working as a professional in the Netherlands in the past 12 years (and paying full tax, not expat tax!) but yet this inburgering!!! I speak relatively good Dutch (but writing is a problem because my work requires me writing in English, it never develops). My close friends and colleagues who do not even speak Dutch (except Nee en Ja en goede morgen) do not need to go through this inburgering dark tunnel because they're from the EU countries.
Their argument for inburgering for us (non-EU) is to get a better job. Yeah, give me a better one then, I would love to have it!

For a tutor out there who reads this posting, could you please contact me at mw_inholland hotmail dot co dot uk? I have done my first inburbering examen and passed, however I sent my portfolio several months ago, they sent me back the package without a clear note what I have done wrong.
FYI I have not done any inburgeringcursus because I work long hours and I have family to take care of. Can an official tutor who reads this is willing to help me out? I do not mind having a couple of private course with you to correct my portfolio and to practice the second exam if necessary. I live in north holland, in Amsterdam-Haarlem area and can only follow a course for a couple of time on Thursday evening or weekend. Please contact me in the above email. Thank you.

One more thing, will the info below be implemented?


• We scherpen de eisen voor inburgering aan, zowel in het buitenland als in Nederland.
• Voorbereiding op het inburgeringexamen is een verantwoordelijkheid van betrokkenen zelf. Mensen met een asielstatus doen we een aanbod, voor anderen is een sociaal leenstelsel beschikbaar.
• Inburgeringinspanningen worden consequent en vanaf het begin gevolgd. Wie zich onvoldoende inzet verliest de verblijfsvergunning, met uitzondering van degenen meteen verblijfsvergunning asiel. Maar ook voor de laatste groep geldt dat zij zich inmoeten zetten om belemmeringen voor werk, zoals het niet beheersen van het Nederlands, weg te nemen. Alleen dan kunnen zij in aanmerking komen voor een bijstandsuitkering.

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Re: I am university educated & so frustrated with inburgering!

Post by adappel » Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:23 pm

The Dutch text above is part of the new governmentplans.
It does not really mean anything new.
Those who are 'inburgeringsplichtig' need to pass ...
Being "inburgeringsplchtig" is not only a bad thing: you have the right of being funded for courses or lessons ...
This will change for those who will be declared "inburgeringsplichtig" later than 1-1-2013. For new immigrants the funding will disappear.

Everybody will have to look for his/her own courses/lessons and pay the full price from 1-1-2013.
Only refugees and their family-members will keep the right the get a loan for following a course.
But they also will have to pay back the loan for 100%.
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Re: I am university educated & so frustrated with inburgering!

Post by Ale » Fri Sep 16, 2016 10:43 am

There are a lot of arrogant comments posted here.

I have a bachelor's degree from an Ivy League uni, a master's degree from a French École, and speak 3 different languages at C2 level, yet I would never dare to claim that taking these exams is kind of absurd or beneath me: come on, who do you think you are?

Why do we non-EU citizens have to take these exams? Because there is something called "law", because inmigration must be controlled, because you can always go back to your homeland if you are not willing to comply with your desired destination's rules.

Anyone with an education should be able to understand the indications for the different exams available/required, and just take them. If the cursus/exam is so basic and boring for your brilliant minds, why do you sweat?

It is boring, it demads time, some questions are a bit odd, but we all must do it.

You are all smart, you should have zero trouble with all this for sure.

Be humble, and realistic: COMPLY
Last edited by Ale on Sun Oct 09, 2016 12:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: I am university educated & so frustrated with inburgering!

Post by ngonyama » Sat Sep 17, 2016 3:28 am

Ale wrote:There are a lot of arrogant comments posted here.

I have a bachelor's degree from an Ivy League uni, a master's degree from a French École, and speak 3 different languages at C2 level, yet I would never dare to claim that taking these exams is kind of absurd or beneath me: come on, who do you think you are?

Why do we non-EU citizens have to take these exams? Because there is something called "law", because inmigration must be controlled, because you can always go back to your homeland if you are not willing to comply with your desired destination's rules.

Anyone with an education should be able to understand the indications for the different exams available/required, and just take them.

It is boring, it demads time, some questions are a bit odd, but we all must do it.

You are all bright, you should have zero trouble with all this for sure.

Be humble, and realistic: COMPLY
Thank you Ale. I'm not always so happy with how my beloved homeland goes about it and so I can understand why people get frustrated, but then my inburgering here in the US was not always so nice either: no lessons or courses. You simply need to be perfect on day one otherwise you are treated like a stupid idiot. And even if your English is actually better than mine, you don't speak it with the same southern drawl and so you must be inferior.

I'm not saying that all Americans treated me this way but a fair number did. Just imagine if people in Holland would treat foreigners like that. No mercy: your Dutch needs to be perfect on day one. Nobody speaks anything but Dutch. How would these above people deal with that?

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Re: I am university educated & so frustrated with inburgering!

Post by Ale » Tue Sep 20, 2016 10:23 pm

ngonyama wrote:
Ale wrote:There are a lot of arrogant comments posted here.

I have a bachelor's degree from an Ivy League uni, a master's degree from a French École, and speak 3 different languages at C2 level, yet I would never dare to claim that taking these exams is kind of absurd or beneath me: come on, who do you think you are?

Why do we non-EU citizens have to take these exams? Because there is something called "law", because inmigration must be controlled, because you can always go back to your homeland if you are not willing to comply with your desired destination's rules.

Anyone with an education should be able to understand the indications for the different exams available/required, and just take them.

It is boring, it demads time, some questions are a bit odd, but we all must do it.

You are all bright, you should have zero trouble with all this for sure.

Be humble, and realistic: COMPLY
Thank you Ale. I'm not always so happy with how my beloved homeland goes about it and so I can understand why people get frustrated, but then my inburgering here in the US was not always so nice either: no lessons or courses. You simply need to be perfect on day one otherwise you are treated like a stupid idiot. And even if your English is actually better than mine, you don't speak it with the same southern drawl and so you must be inferior.

I'm not saying that all Americans treated me this way but a fair number did. Just imagine if people in Holland would treat foreigners like that. No mercy: your Dutch needs to be perfect on day one. Nobody speaks anything but Dutch. How would these above people deal with that?
I am not sure I understand: do you live in the US and are obliged to pass English exams to be granted citizenship? Which English level do they require you to attest?

Mostly I just dislike the attitude of "I studied this or that before and I am this or that so don't come to me with your legal requirements". It is incredibly arrogant, and makes me wonder if those who complain so much are as sharp as they claim to be, given the fact that complying to the law and learning the language of their new country, to an intermediate level, represents such an ordeal.

I am by no means great at Dutch, neither learned the few things I know easily, but hey: the law is the law. So: less entitlement, more respect and appreciation for our host/new country and its language/culture.

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