Noun - Adjective association Game

Games we play within the forum itself. If you find a neat game on the web, I would place that post under “Resources and Reviews”
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Noun - Adjective association Game

Post by Tom » Thu Oct 06, 2005 9:42 pm

The following is a very long winded explanation of a game I would like to start in the “Study Aids” section. I hope the game is worth the time you put into reading the rules. :)

We begin with a pair of words. Let “N1” represent the first word and “A1” represent the second word. The first word, “N1”, should be a thing (Noun). The second word, (A1), should be a characteristic (Adjective), that is for the most part, universally associated the first word.

Thus “N1” in this case is “vos” in Dutch or “fox” in English.
“A1” is “slim” in Dutch or “smart” in English.

Using this pair of words, try to write some sentences with “N1” in its singular and plural form. Also try to make some sentences where you use “B1” in its simple form, the comparative form and superlative forms of the adjective (characteristic).

In this example:
fox - foxes
smart – smarter – smartest

First start with the pair.
N1 – A1
vos – slim

Then begin your sentences.

Zie je die vos in mijn achtertuin? Hij is een slim dier.
Do you see that fox in my backyard? He is a smart animal.

Vossen zijn heel slimme dieren.
Foxes are very smart animals.

Is een aap slimmer dan een vos? Wat denk je?
Is a monkey smarter than a fox? What do you think?

Zijn mensen de slimste wezens ter werld?
Are people (humans) the smartest creatures on earth?

The idea is to develop associations between nouns and adjectives that can really stick in your head. You want to associate “vos” with “slim”, so you “think” of them in Dutch to begin with. You don’t want to associate “vos” with “fox” and separately associate “slim” with “smart”. That would be translating them first and then remembering the association that is already built in you head between “fox” and “smart” in English.

To liven thing up a bit, we add the comparative and the superlative cases. This also gets us to “think” and use them within the same association which in turn reinforces the association. Furthermore, it gets us accustomed to using the right form of the adjective with the noun depending upon if the noun is a “de” or “het” word.

The more interesting that you make the sentences, the easier it is to keep the associations in your memory. We remember the unusual and interesting much more easily than the plain and boring.

I cannot remember what I ate for breakfast or how I got to work. Yes, I know it was by car, but somehow I left home and just got there. What happened along the way was automatically flushed from my memory.

On the other had, I can remember who, how, and where my cousin taught me how to tie my shoes for the first time and in fact can picture it in my mind to this day. (And boy, was that long ago!)

Think about it. I’ll bet everyone can remember their first kiss, or a big fight, and sometimes where they were and what they were doing when something really important happened.

Anyway, lets continue with the rules of the game...

After the first pair of words is chosen and the sentences written, the next player, keeps the noun the same, but changes the adjective. Thus we now have “N1” paired with “A2”.

The player then writes sentences with the new word pair.

The next player, keeps the adjective the same, but changes the noun. So, now we have “N2” paired with “A2”.

The player then writes sentences with the new word pair.

We alternate back and forth between noun and adjective as long as we can. If we hit a road block (a few days where everyone has drawn a blank) then someone can suggest a new starting pair under a new topic.

Remember, it is important keep the associations as strong as possible. The stronger the better! So – “The ant was clever.” ant-clever pair is no good. Although you may know of a particularly clever ant, most “normal” people would not say that being clever is typified by an ant.

In a way, this is like the “synonym” game, but more associative, rather than out of context.
I like the “synonym” game as well. In fact, maybe we should start an “antonym” game as well.

As always, if someone spots a mistake, please comment on it as the helps the whole group.

Shall we give it a try?

Might I suggest the next pair for the next player?
How about ...
vos – sluw
fox – sly, cunning

I love that association. I cannot hear the word “sluw” without thinking of a “vos”. That is what you want to achieve. You want associations so strong you can’t shut them off even if you wanted to.

Every time I hear “that was just right” or “just right” the story of Goldielocks and the three bears comes to mind. (Okay, maybe not every time!)

Alright, enough of my babble.

Allemaal klaar? ... Start!

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Post by barbara » Thu Oct 06, 2005 11:32 pm

Tom! I was never good at writing fiction but I will give it a go.

De sluwe vos wilde de konijn opeten.
The sly fox wanted to eat the rabbit.

Hij had een sluw plan.
He had a cunning plan.

Maar de konijn was sluwer.
But the rabbit was slyer.

De konijn pretendeerde zichzelf een vos te zijn en de vos werd bang.
The rabbit pretended to be a fox and the fox got scared.

Dit was het sluwste plan ooit gemaakt door een konijn.
This was the smartest plan ever made by a rabbit.

So it is a nonsense story :P

But the associations are correct!

Next:

(N1) Noun: vos (sluw)
(A2) Adjective: vlug (quick)

Groetjes, Barbara

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Clarification

Post by Tom » Fri Oct 07, 2005 2:04 am

Goed gedaan! Barbara

I guess I threw you off with my long winded instructions.
I meant for me and my example to be player number 1.
The other thing was that I didn’t really want the player to choose the next word in the same category for the following player. I suggested “sluw” simply in the hopes that someone might use it as their choice because I like the word so much.
Sorry for the confusion I introduced.

This is more like what I was hoping for:

Tom: vos, snel - This is the "seed" for the game. Whoever "seeds" the new game chooses both the noun and the adjective.

Barbara: vos, sluw - Barbara chooses "sluw". The noun stays the same.

Eet Smakelijk: wolf, sluw - Eet Smaakelijk chooses "wolf" the adjective stays the same.

Daisy: wolf, boos - Daisy chooses "boos". The noun stays the same.

...

Evenwel, schoon gedaan!
Nevertheless, beautifully done!

Tom
Last edited by Tom on Fri Oct 07, 2005 3:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by EetSmakelijk » Fri Oct 07, 2005 2:34 am

Hallo, Tom.
I am just here to say that I think this is a fabulous idea for a game but I think my Dutch is not advanced enough to play. Nouns and adjectives and really vocabulary in general are what I have trouble with.
I know how to use them sort of, but I do not know enough in Dutch to think of new ones for the game.
Anyway, just wanted to say great idea and have fun!
Groetjes,
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Try to do as much as you can.

Post by Tom » Fri Oct 07, 2005 3:52 am

Hallo Eet Smakelijk,

Maybe doing all of it is a bit too hard. But try to take it as far as you can.

If you want, you could just say the next logical pair, such as "ouwe wolf" and "sluw" and stop there. You at least exercised the the main step which was coming up with a good association.

Then, if you want, you can try for a sentence or two. In some cases, like this, you can even use the previous sentence as a model and follow that pattern.

Barbara wrote:
De sluwe vos wilde de konijn opeten.
The sly fox wanted to eat the rabbit.
You could then say:
De sluwe oude wolf wilde de big opeten.
The sly old wolf wanted to eat the baby pig.

Pretty gruesome, huh?
That is the kind of stuff, be it gruesome, sweet, silly, funny and so on that helps us to remember things.

I would really like for you to try to take it as far as you can. I know you are ready for at least some of it. If you cannot do all parts, just do the ones you can. I am sure someone in the group will correct any minor mistakes and complete the parts that you are having trouble with.
Maybe for the more difficult ones, you could make the sentence up in English only and someone in the group can provide the translation as part of a reply.

How did you write all of those sentences in the beginnershoekje? They were great!
So please give it a try. If you try it, that will help others who are a bit nervous about trying it to step forward and give it a shot. That is one of the ways we help each other here. It is not just by correcting word order or spelling.

Except for the native Dutch speakers who help us here, we are all in the same boat, even if we are on different decks.

[-o<
Tom

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Post by EetSmakelijk » Fri Oct 07, 2005 3:59 pm

Hallo, Tom. Dank je wel for your confidence in me. :)
Ok, I am going to try; hope I got the rules right.
We are using the adjective sluw sly and changing the noun?
Now cats could be sly/cunning... :wink:
Ik heb een sluwe kat.
I have a sly cat.
Ze is sluwer dan een hond.
She is more sly than a dog.
Ze is de sluwste kat in het huis!
She is the sliest cat in the house. (Also the only cat, lol.)
Ik heb twee sluwe katten.
I have two sly cats.
Ok, enough about cats and dogs; I was trying to avoid writing more sentences about them. :wink:
Met sluwe groetjes,
With sly greetings, :lol:
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Post by Tom » Sat Oct 08, 2005 11:49 am

Ik wist het!
I knew it!

Schoon gedaan!
Beautifully done!

Absoluut fantastisch!
Absolutely fantastic!

Gefeliciteerd!
Congratulations!

Uw pogingen hebben lekker gesmaakt! :wink:
Your attempts have tasted great!

Dat moet zo, want, jij bent – de enig - Eet Smakelijk! 8)
That’s got to be, since you are - the one and only – Eat hearty (Eat tastefully)!

That was my attempt at humor. I guess that I had better keep my day job! :oops:

I hope other members will be inspired to try as well. Believe me, I know it can be scary. I have been there and am still often (ok, maybe most of the time) scared. It is just something that we have to push ourselves to do if we want to ever achieve our goal.

Bedankt,
Tom

P.S. - I sincerely admire your tenacity and the effort!

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Post by Marco » Sat Oct 08, 2005 12:18 pm

Hallo! Ik laat jullie het spel spelen, maar ik ga jullie wel even verbeteren.
Hello! I'll let you play the game, but I am gonna correct you.

Barbara:
het konijn
Ken je het boek 'Vosje Vlug'? / Do you know the book 'Vosje Vlug'?

EetSmakelijk:
Een kat is mannelijk en een poes is vrouwelijk / A kat is male and a poes is female.
Dus als je naar een kat verwijst moet je 'Hij is sluwer dan een hond' zeggen. :P
So if you're referring to a kat you have to say 'Hij is sluwer dan een hond'

Tom:
Gebruik alsjeblieft 'jouw' en niet 'uw'! / Please use 'jouw' and not 'uw'!
Op het Internet is alles wat informeler en is het veel gebruikelijker om 'jouw' te schrijven. :) / On the Internet everything is a bit more informal and it's much more common to write 'jouw'.

De uitdrukking is 'mooi gedaan', niet 'schoon gedaan'. / The expression is 'mooi gedaan', not 'schoon gedaan'.

de enige

En op de een of andere manier klinkt 'goed gesmaakt' beter dan 'lekker gesmaakt'. :) / And somehow 'goed gesmaakt' sounds better than 'lekker gesmaakt'.

Dit ziet er goed uit, jongens! / This looks great, guys! 8)

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Akkord

Post by Tom » Sat Oct 08, 2005 1:09 pm

I have taken "schoon gedaan" directly out of the Flemish version of the movie Chicken Run. It is not said in the Dutch version that I have. Since I natively speak neither, I cannot tell if it is just a different translation or a difference between Flemish and Dutch.

I once said, "Ik ben bek af" (I am tired / wiped out.) when in Belgium and was told that that was more Dutch than Flemish. I had gotten that from the Dutch version of "Ice Age".

In general I try to use expressions I hear on DVDs and I do watch a mix of Dutch and Flemish. "Lekker gesmaakt" came from "De Drie Biggetjes - met K3" which was a Flemish production.

Anyway, I do thank you for your tips and will note them.

de enige - was clearly my mistake

I didn't know about the use of uw versus jouw on the internet. In fact getting the whole u verse jij thing correct all the time is hard for us since we don't have that concept in English.
I lived in Flanders about 20 years ago for about a year and they seem to use U more often than the Dutch. I go back and forth because it is confusing. I really would prefer to use Je all the time because it is easier, I just don't want to offend anyone.

Thanks for your help,
Tom
Last edited by Tom on Sat Oct 08, 2005 1:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by EetSmakelijk » Sat Oct 08, 2005 1:21 pm

Hallo, Tom.
Please do not worry about being formal vs. informal with me. Since I am a native English speaker I really don't have the formality stuff built-in. :)
All my Dutch friends on the net address me as je.
Somebody here I think it was Wim said if you use the person's first name, i.e., Tom, you would say je but Mr. whatever your last name is would be u, is that correct people?
I guess I would use u when in doubt but I am cautious. :wink:
Ok, I'll let somebody else try the game now cause I don't want two turns in a row. :razz:
Dank je wel Marco voor de correction. :wink:
I can't believe I have to worry about male vs. female cats. Oh well, I guess I should be used to that from my days learning French. :razz:
Met vriendelijke groetjes,
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Flemish or Dutch? Finding Clues

Post by Tom » Sat Oct 08, 2005 3:22 pm

I started to wonder how a non-native speaker could figure out if some expression was Flemish as opposed to Dutch.

Well, I googled "Schoon gedaan" and found that there were many more web site hits that are ".be" than there are ".nl". So I therefore conclude that it must be Flemish.

Another trick I use google for is to compare number of hits on a phrase or expression.

If you google "ik doe het niet" you get about 37,800 hits.
If you google "ik doe niet het" you get about 135 hits.

Which do you think is better?

Use this some caution. The different number of hits can be due to other things both being correct but they had different intended meanings.

Tom

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Post by Bieneke » Sun Oct 09, 2005 8:28 pm

Hi Tom,
If you google "ik doe het niet" you get about 37,800 hits.
If you google "ik doe niet het" you get about 135 hits.

Which do you think is better?
The first one is correct, the second incorrect. If you google for "ik doe niet het", you will find that 'het' is an article before a noun ("ik doe niet het leukste werk maar het betaalt goed"), whereas the phrase "ik doe het niet" ("I do not do it") contains the personal pronoun 'het'.

Groetjes,
Bieneke

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Post by Tom » Sun Oct 09, 2005 8:43 pm

You are right! I should have said that I was looking for "Ik doe het niet." and "Ik doe niet het." (with the period). But, I don't know how or if you can include punctuation in google searches. If someone knows, please let me know.

Thats why I urged caution about google's use. The search alone cannot determine context. It is just one of the tools (and a free one) that we can put to some use.

Groetjes,
Tom

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Post by barbara » Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:54 am

Oh I get it : :P how clever!

HET konijn... Thanks Marco :oops:
EetSmakelijk wrote:Now cats could be sly/cunning...
Ik heb een sluwe kat.
I have a sly cat.
Ze is sluwer dan een hond.
She is more sly than a dog.
Ze is de sluwste kat in het huis!
She is the sliest cat in the house. (Also the only cat, lol.)
Ik heb twee sluwe katten.
I have two sly cats.
EetSmakelijk: sluw - kat - hond
Barbara: trouw - hond - butler

Vroeger had ik een trouwe hond.
I used to have a loyal dog.
Ze was trouwer dan een dienaar.
She was more loyal than a butler.
Zijn dienaren de trouwste mensen?
Are butlers the most loyal people?
EetSmakelijk wrote:Ok, enough about cats and dogs; I was trying to avoid writing more sentences about them.
LOL

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Post by Laura » Mon Oct 10, 2005 2:38 pm

Hello,
I'd like to join in but I'm a touch bewildered.
So I'm supposed to keep the noun in this turn since we just changed the adjective, but do I use hond or dinaar? Or maybe both?
I suppose you always need another noun to compare the first one to when you use the comparative adjective.

Mjin hond is gezet.
My dog is fat.
De gezete honden hebben een compleet koek gegeten.
The fat dogs have eaten an entire cake.
De hond is gezeter dan de dienaar.
The dog is fatter than the butler.
Maar de nijlpaard is de gezetest aan alles.
But the hippopotamus is the fattest of all.

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