Pocketfish

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davearoundthecorner
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Pocketfish

Post by davearoundthecorner » Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:08 pm

Hi, I was just reading the section on T and d verbs and feel the explanation is needlessly complex. Wouldn't it be easier to just say that "if the stem's final consonant is voiced in the infinitive then the past takes -de(n), while if the stem's final consonant is unvoiced then the past takes -te(n)?" You could then eliminate the pocketfish page entirely, or link to for people who don't know the difference between voiced and unvoiced consonants. (Better yet, link to an explanation of voiced and unvoiced consonants, since this concept has a much broader applicability in the study of languages.)

Thank you for this site by the way. I've been reading up on verbs and find the material very helpful!

Ciao,
Dave

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Re: Pocketfish

Post by nedderman » Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:32 pm

It all depends on how you want to interpret the instructions. Some people don't have the ability to make it seem so simple, but I agree with what you say.

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Re: Pocketfish

Post by ngonyama » Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:22 pm

A lot people do not know what consonants are, let alone (un)voiced ones or things like infinitives. The pocketfish is an attempt to help them identify unvoiced consonants.

I am not sure about the splitting up of the ch of 't kofschip in pocketfish, though. Dutch verb stems can end in -ch like lachen lachte, but I do not know any that end in -c -sh or -h. At least not indigenous ones.

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Re: Pocketfish

Post by firefly315 » Sat Oct 15, 2011 1:58 am

ngonyama wrote:I am not sure about the splitting up of the ch of 't kofschip in pocketfish, though. Dutch verb stems can end in -ch like lachen lachte, but I do not know any that end in -c -sh or -h. At least not indigenous ones.
Hi everyone,

I've heard that -ch is never split up in verb stems, so if you want to use pocketfish instead, then, you just have to remember that the c and the h always go together.

Cathleen

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Re: Pocketfish

Post by Archer » Sat Oct 15, 2011 1:36 pm

Yes, ch never splits. It pronounce as one consonant.
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Re: Pocketfish

Post by ngonyama » Sat Oct 15, 2011 7:07 pm

Another problem with the "(un)voiced" argument pertains to verbs with a stem in -g. In contrast to the ones in -ch they do take the d(e) suffixes:

lachen - ik lach - ik lachte
zagen - ik zaag - ik zaagde

However, not everybody pronounces the 'g' of zagen still as a voiced consonant. I still do, even though I am from just north of the Moerdijk, but most people further to the north do not distinguish between ch and g at all anymore.

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