Zijn or hebben - strong verbs

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Re: Zijn or hebben - strong verbs

Post by Bert » Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:09 pm

@ngonyama & Quetzal
Vermoord elkaar toch niet. :)
radamfi wrote:Another discrepancy I have found is that the list shows the past tense of behangen to be 'behangde' whereas all dictionaries I have consulted have the past tense to be 'behing'.
Yes: behangen - behing - behangen. If you're not sure about something, you can use http://woordenlijst.org/ as the ultimate authority.

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Re: Zijn or hebben - strong verbs

Post by radamfi » Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:34 pm

Quetzal wrote:You should not rely blindly on Wiktionary - there will be mistakes from time to time, it happens.
That does sound like sensible advice, although in this case the 'error' is in

http://www.dutchgrammar.com/en/?n=Verbs.Ir03#H

Is 'behangen' one of those strong verbs you mention that is often conjugated weakly? When Bieneke sorts the strong verbs by conjugation pattern on the next page, she still classes behangen as a verb with a regular past tense, so maybe she really did genuinely think that was the past tense and it was not a typo.

Obviously as a native English speaker things would be so much easier if there were no strong verbs (and of course, only one gender)!

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Re: Zijn or hebben - strong verbs

Post by radamfi » Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:40 pm

Bert wrote:Yes: behangen - behing - behangen. If you're not sure about something, you can use http://woordenlijst.org/ as the ultimate authority.
Thanks for that tip. Is it worth asking Bieneke to change the website for behangen and barsten? I don't want to sound like I am complaining, as after all she has set up this website and forum and for no money.

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Re: Zijn or hebben - strong verbs

Post by Joke » Tue Jun 05, 2012 7:36 am

You're right that behangde is wrong, but what's wrong with barsten?

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Re: Zijn or hebben - strong verbs

Post by radamfi » Tue Jun 05, 2012 8:00 am

Joke wrote:You're right that behangde is wrong, but what's wrong with barsten?
Barsten always uses zijn in the past participle, so should be marked with an asterisk (*)

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Re: Zijn or hebben - strong verbs

Post by Joke » Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:37 pm

Oh that's right. I only looked at the conjugations.
It's now corrected.

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Re: Zijn or hebben - strong verbs

Post by radamfi » Tue Jun 05, 2012 6:11 pm

Great! Just realised the next page might need changing as well. :)

http://www.dutchgrammar.com/en/?n=Verbs.ir04

Behangen is currently in the "Regular past, past participle gets -en" category when it should be in the "a - i - a, past participle gets -en" category.

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Re: Zijn or hebben - strong verbs

Post by Joke » Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:42 am

Fixed.
I see that there are no other verbs with prefixes in this list, so actually behangen doesn't need to be mentioned next to hangen. Otherwise, it should also mention e.g. ontvangen in addition to vangen.
But I don't think that's a big problem.

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Re: Zijn or hebben - strong verbs

Post by radamfi » Wed Jun 06, 2012 1:13 pm

Actually, Joke, that is a good point. The only reason why behangen is mentioned at all is because
Only derived verbs that are conjugated differently or take another auxiliary verb in the past participle, are mentioned separately.
Now it is conjugated the same as hangen, I suppose behangen could be removed from both pages. I can see someone even more pedantic than me pointing this out in a few years! I have only learned the strong verbs starting with 'b' so far so I haven't noticed hangen yet :) But yes, not a big problem.

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Re: Zijn or hebben - strong verbs

Post by radamfi » Mon Feb 15, 2016 2:28 am

Does bezwijken always use zijn?

https://nl.wiktionary.org/wiki/bezwijken/vervoeging

says

"ik heb bezweken"

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Re: Zijn or hebben - strong verbs

Post by BrutallyFrank » Mon Feb 15, 2016 9:41 am

I think that the problem here is the meaning of the word 'bezwijken'. Usually it's used as a way to say that something/someone has expired/died. In that case you'd use 'zijn' (hij is bezweken, zij zijn bezweken).

In the link you provided the word 'bezwijken' is used as succumb/to give way. To be honest, I've never have heard the word 'bezwijken' used in combination with 'hebben'. I guess it's an old fashion use of that word in that meaning. So my answer would be: yes, it can be connected to 'hebben'. But it's so unusual, I advice you to forget about that meaning and use it with 'zijn', meaning 'to die'.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bezwijken
"Moenie worrie nie, alles sal reg kom" (maar hy het nie gesê wanneer nie!)

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Re: Zijn or hebben - strong verbs

Post by radamfi » Tue Feb 16, 2016 8:58 am

BrutallyFrank wrote:But it's so unusual, I advice you to forget about that meaning and use it with 'zijn', meaning 'to die'.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bezwijken
Bedankt!

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