Pronunciation of 'buien'

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Fabiola
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Pronunciation of 'buien'

Post by Fabiola » Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:36 pm

Hi,

How do you actually pronounce a word 'buien' ?

Is it [ 'bœiə ] or [ 'bœyjə ] ?

Thank you for your answer.

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Re: Pronunciation of 'buien'

Post by Bert » Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:56 pm

Fabiola wrote:Hi,

How do you actually pronounce a word 'buien' ?

Is it [ 'bœiə ] or [ 'bœyjə ] ?

Thank you for your answer.
['bœyə(n)]

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Re: Pronunciation of 'buien'

Post by Fabiola » Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:19 pm

How are pronounced these words:

bui, ui, trui, uien, truien ?

On another forum they write to me 'buien' should be pronounced [ 'bœyjə ].
They say it's more common. What do you think about it ?

Thank you for your answers.

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Re: Pronunciation of 'buien'

Post by Bert » Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:33 pm

Fabiola wrote:How are pronounced these words:

bui, ui, trui, uien, truien ?

On another forum they write to me 'buien' should be pronounced [ 'bœyjə ].
They say it's more common. What do you think about it ?

Thank you for your answers.
[bœy], [œy], [trœy], [œyə(n)], ['trœyə(n)]

I follow the phonetic alphabet of woorden.org. If you are not sure how to pronounce a Dutch word correctly, you can use WikiWoordenboek. For instance, here you can listen to bui: http://nl.wiktionary.org/wiki/bui

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Re: Pronunciation of 'buien'

Post by Joke » Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:56 pm

Many people pronounce buien with a (Dutch!) j-sound between ui and e, because it is hard to connect the two vowels without some consonant in between.
Some people also use a w as in between sound.
Both pronounciations are accepted and I think there are regional variations. My parents, who grow up in different parts of the country, strongly disagree on the pronunciation of buien :)

There are more vowel combinations that have an unwritten j or w sound:
after ie, ei/ij or ee, we insert a j-sound:
skiën [skie-jen]
eieren [ei-je-ren]
theater [tee-jaa-ter]

after oo or oe, we insert a w-sound
oase [oo-waa-se]
douane [doe-wa-ne]

Ui is somewhere in between ie and oe, so some people choose j and other choose w (I favor j)

The same goes for uu. I personaly strongly prefer a w after uu (for exampel in duo and fluor, I say [duu-wo] and [fluu-wor]), but apparently, there are people that prefer a j there (but I never met one of those people...)

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Re: Pronunciation of 'buien'

Post by Bert » Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:36 pm

Yes, Joke is right so I have to modify my own post :)
Bert wrote:
Fabiola wrote:How are pronounced these words:

bui, ui, trui, uien, truien ?

On another forum they write to me 'buien' should be pronounced [ 'bœyjə ].
They say it's more common. What do you think about it ?

Thank you for your answers.
[bœy], [œy], [trœy], [œyjə(n)], ['trœyjə(n)]

I follow the phonetic alphabet of woorden.org. If you are not sure how to pronounce a Dutch word correctly, you can use WikiWoordenboek. For instance, here you can listen to bui: http://nl.wiktionary.org/wiki/bui

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Re: Pronunciation of 'buien'

Post by Vilmos » Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:56 pm

Joke wrote:Many people pronounce buien with a (Dutch!) j-sound between ui and e, because it is hard to connect the two vowels without some consonant in between.
Some people also use a w as in between sound.
Both pronounciations are accepted and I think there are regional variations. My parents, who grow up in different parts of the country, strongly disagree on the pronunciation of buien :)

There are more vowel combinations that have an unwritten j or w sound:
after ie, ei/ij or ee, we insert a j-sound:
skiën [skie-jen]
eieren [ei-je-ren]
theater [tee-jaa-ter]

after oo or oe, we insert a w-sound
oase [oo-waa-se]
douane [doe-wa-ne]

Ui is somewhere in between ie and oe, so some people choose j and other choose w (I favor j)

The same goes for uu. I personaly strongly prefer a w after uu (for exampel in duo and fluor, I say [duu-wo] and [fluu-wor]), but apparently, there are people that prefer a j there (but I never met one of those people...)
Ik zeg [duu-jo] en [fluu-jor]. Een -w in plaats van een -j vind ik voor mezelf nogal geforceerd overkomen, maar na een aantal keer hardop zeggen klinkt het inderdaad niet verkeerd, wat ik in eerste instantie wel dacht.

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Re: Pronunciation of 'buien'

Post by Joke » Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:06 am

Vilmos wrote:Ik zeg [duu-jo] en [fluu-jor]. Een -w in plaats van een -j vind ik voor mezelf nogal geforceerd overkomen, maar na een aantal keer hardop zeggen klinkt het inderdaad niet verkeerd, wat ik in eerste instantie wel dacht.
Interessant :) Voor mij klinkt een j na een uu veel verkeerder dan een w na een ui, als zou ik het allebei zelf niet zeggen.
Ik las een keer in een taalcolumn van Marc van Oostendorp dat hij [duujo] zei en dat verbaasde me enorm. Had ik echt nog nooit gehoord. Maar blijkbaar is het toch niet zo gek. Misschien ook sterk regionaal? Uit welke hoek van het land kom jij? Ik uit Zuid-Gelderland, bijna Brabant.

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Re: Pronunciation of 'buien'

Post by Fabiola » Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:38 pm

Hi,

The woman who recorded at Forvo a word 'buien' pronounced it [ 'bœiə ].

Is it also correct ? What do you think about it ?

Thank you for your answer. :)

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Re: Pronunciation of 'buien'

Post by Fabiola » Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:09 pm

Please answer my above question.

I believe it's not too difficult to you...
:)

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Re: Pronunciation of 'buien'

Post by Bert » Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:21 pm

No, it's not too difficult. :)

I think the lady says [bœyjən] with a very soft n. My problem was initially that I thought wrongly that the [y] was the [j] so there was no need here for a [j], but later I had to realize that the [y] is only part of the phonetic transcription of ui. So I'm happy that you raised this issue, thank you.

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Re: Pronunciation of 'buien'

Post by Joke » Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:03 am

Yes, the woman at forvo uses the pronunciation with j that I mentioned above. It's perfectly normal.

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Re: Pronunciation of 'buien'

Post by Vilmos » Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:41 am

Joke wrote:
Vilmos wrote:Ik zeg [duu-jo] en [fluu-jor]. Een -w in plaats van een -j vind ik voor mezelf nogal geforceerd overkomen, maar na een aantal keer hardop zeggen klinkt het inderdaad niet verkeerd, wat ik in eerste instantie wel dacht.
Interessant :) Voor mij klinkt een j na een uu veel verkeerder dan een w na een ui, als zou ik het allebei zelf niet zeggen.
Ik las een keer in een taalcolumn van Marc van Oostendorp dat hij [duujo] zei en dat verbaasde me enorm. Had ik echt nog nooit gehoord. Maar blijkbaar is het toch niet zo gek. Misschien ook sterk regionaal? Uit welke hoek van het land kom jij? Ik uit Zuid-Gelderland, bijna Brabant.
Heerlen, Zuid-Limburg. Ik dacht inderdaad dat het iets met de regio te maken had, maar de vrouw op Forvo komt uit Leiden. Dus echt uniek voor mijn landsdeel is het niet. Spreekt iedereen in jouw omgeving het met een -w uit?

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Re: Pronunciation of 'buien'

Post by Wim » Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:44 pm

I strongly prefer the pronunciation with the /j/ sound, so /bœyjə/ sounds normal to me. It always strikes my mind when I hear a weatherman (and the RTL weathermen in particular!) say /bœyə/, sometimes even with something like /ʊ/ in between: /bœyʊə/. It is a phenomenon that I've only noticed quite recently, say over the last 10 years or so. Indeed, Marc Oostendorp reacted on it in the Onze Taal magazine if I remember it well. It may be something regional, but to me it still sounds odd. But maybe my j pronunciation does so to others.

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Re: Pronunciation of 'buien'

Post by seabreeze » Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:42 am

Vilmos wrote:
Ik zeg [duu-jo] en [fluu-jor]. Een -w in plaats van een -j vind ik voor mezelf nogal geforceerd overkomen, maar na een aantal keer hardop zeggen klinkt het inderdaad niet verkeerd, wat ik in eerste instantie wel dacht.
Gek, nooit bij stilgestaan. Na een aantal keer verschillende woorden hardop te hebben uitgesproken constateerde ik dat ik inderdaad een -w in plaats van een -j gebruik. Ik heb het met een -j geprobeerd, maar dat klinkt heel raar en geforceerd. Ik ben opgegroeid en woonachtig omgeving Leiden/Den Haag.

Uhhhh en die weerman... vind ik persoonlijk geen "mooi" Nederlands spreken. Mijn tenen krullen zich als ik hem "ai" hoor zeggen waar het een "ei" of "ij" had moeten zijn.

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