Dutch/Flemish pronunciation

[marcewa]

Hi all,

Is there an important difference of language and pronunciation between Dutch and Flamish people?
I am talking about the accent, but really about the pronunciation.

For example, the word "Welkom":
I already heard a Dutch saying "Welkom" with a "W" pronunced like an English (or French) "V". On the contrary I heard a Flemish saying "Welkom" like "welcome" in English.

Are there many differences like this one between both languages?

Thanks.

Marc.

[singerin]

There's a difference in pronunciation. Some words have even different  meaning.
For example word "billen".
I was in Belgium and the pronunciation is different. But everybody can understand each other anyway. But not always  Sometimes I can't.  :D

[RussellMS]

Bij 'Technopolis' (kinderen wetenschap centrum) in Mechelen is er een display met dezelfde woord in vlaamse zoals gesproken in verschillende staden door Belgie. Er zijn zeker hele vele uitspraken, en erg verschillend!

R.

(trying to say ... At Technopolis (childrens science centre) in Mechelen there is a display with the same word in flemish as spoken in different cities across Belgium. There are certainly lots of pronunciations, and extremely different!)

[evilbu]

Hi all,

Is there an important difference of language and pronunciation between Dutch and Flamish people?

It's actually "Flemish", the region is called "Flanders" and the people "Flemings".
In Dutch it's "Vlaams", the region is called "Vlaanderen" and the people "Vlamingen".

Are there many differences like this one between both languages?

Wow fast intervention needed!
Flemish is not a language!  It's just a (not so well defined!) term, referring to our variant of Dutch.
Don't let anyone tell you anything else, the official language in Flanders is Dutch, and I have never seen a Flemish dictionary.


I myself would give you this explanation :

- at a regional level, there are dialects (like "Gents" and "Antwerps")
- then there is some sort of inter-Flemish, which is what I was brought up in.  Very typical is that "je/jij" is replaced with "ge/gij"
- then there is the clean Flemish.  This is what newsreaders speak, what most teachers in classrooms speak,....  When written down, it's exactly the same as Dutch.  All Flemings understand this, and the Dutch people understand this as well.  But there are still subtle differences, and a native speaker still only needs a few seconds to tell if one is Flemish or not.

When some people do speak regional dialects on television, they are often subtitled just to make sure everyone understands.  This often creates (some mild) controversy as some people think West-Flemish are disproportionally often subtitled, compared to Antwerp people.


So in short, if you want to be a bilingual person in Brussels, Dutch should be alright.  And if you're interested, you can try some of my exercises here  :) :

http://www.dutchgrammar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=758

Hi all,
For example, the word "Welkom":
I already heard a Dutch saying "Welkom" with a "W" pronunced like an English (or French) "V". On the contrary I heard a Flemish saying "Welkom" like "welcome" in English.

I have no idea, I can't say I've heard this before.  So I don't think it's something you'd have to worry about.

[Bieneke]

There is a huge variety in pronuncation both inside Flanders and inside the Netherlands.

On the website of The Meertens Instituut, you can read more about 'variatielinguïstiek', the discipline that studies the regional and social variations in the Dutch language.

On this page, you can listen to the different dialects spoken in the Netherlands: http://www.meertens.nl/projecten/sprekende_kaart/svg/. I could not find a map with Flemish dialects but I am sure I have seen one somewhere.

If you click on a location on the map, you can listen to the local dialect. There are not many that I can understand really well.

Apart from the huge variation within Flanders and the Netherlands, there are a few general differences between Flemish and Dutch. The ones that stand out most clearly are:

V and W
The Flemish generally pronounce w and v the same as we do in English.
The Dutch pronounce it a bit more like the Germans (Dutch w is a bit like English v, and the v is often pronounced as f. There is hardly a difference between v and f.

G
In the south (Flanders and the south of Netherlands), g is pronounced much softer (less guttural).

Vowels
The Dutch often place a 'w' sound after a long o (oow), eu (euw), or ui (uiw). After after ei/ij or a long e, they often place a 'j' (y) sound. You do not hear this in Flanders .

[marcewa]

Hi!

Many thanks for all this information. That is great to get such details from specialists  :lol:

I have learnt a lot in reading your comments!

Thanks again.

Marc.

[BrutallyFrank]

On this page, you can listen to the different dialects spoken in the Netherlands: http://www.meertens.nl/projecten/sprekende_kaart/svg/. I could not find a map with Flemish dialects but I am sure I have seen one somewhere.

That's a great link! I actually found a sample of my local dialect: the one most southern from Oost-Maarland (that's where I live).
edit: I asked my mother and she told me that the woman lived just down the street.

Strange thing about these dialects is, that they can differ within a very short distance from each other. For instance, when I go to the other side of this village I can hear a slight difference in the way some words are pronounced.

And to give you an example about that subtlety: we are sometimes called 'the Chinese of The Netherlands/Europe' because we can use the same word, but change the meaning by the way we pronounce it. It's not as extreme as in the Chinese language, but it's still there.
For instance: when I say the word 'berg' (mountain), I can end with a 'sleeptoon' or a 'stoottoon'. In combination with the word 'berg' a 'stoottoon' means more than one mountain. In combination with a 'sleeptoon' only one. In extreme it would be a bit like this:
Stoottoon: "berg"
Sleeptoon: "berreg"

Bad thing about it all is that most of these languages are only spoken not written down (although they try to, but it's nowhere near phonectically correct).

Another article on this subject: http://www.vanoostendorp.nl/pdf/atlascursus02.pdf