Accents

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Postby yessamaca » Thu Jan 11, 2007 10:31 am

Roland wrote:There are three ways of pronouncing the 'r', excluding the "American r" at the end of a word. You can say it by vibrating the tip of the tongue (the easiest way I think), by vibrating the back of the tongue (little harder but still doable) and by partly using the throat (scraping, just like the French do). The last one can be heard in Limburg. I think you should learn the first version since it is most commonly used. Just practice the sound for some time before you start using it in words. I think it is not too hard to master it :)


Easy for you to say, buster!  :P  I do, technically, know how to make the sounds.  My degree is in speech therapy so the first thing I do with sounds I can't seem to make is get someone to tell me the mechanics of it.  Where the tongue is placed, the shape of the mouth and lips.  The only r I seem to make is the American r.  I'm sure it'll just take some more time and practice.  I knew my husband for 10 years before we got married and have been trying to pronounce his name (Geert) since we first met.  Of course, I didn't practice it everyday like I do now.  I've made some progress on the g but not much on the r.  Luckily, we live in the south so a soft r is ok.   :)


Oh, and about the civilized thing.  Being civilized is so overrated.  Just as long as you shape up enough to not disgrace the in-laws.
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Postby Marco » Thu Jan 11, 2007 7:36 pm

Ome Jorge wrote:I tried to record some R's for you.


RRRRRRRRR [edit:many people experience problems with this link, I'll try to fix it]


Hmm, can I just add that my r's are completely different? Mine are somewhat more English, with less of a roll. I mean, sure, there is some sort of roll, but it isn't as much as in your examples; in words like 'graag' and 'kraken' I use the back-of-the-tongue-r, which isn't as rolled as the front r.  :)
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Postby Marco » Thu Jan 11, 2007 7:40 pm

yessamaca wrote:Oh, and about the civilized thing.  Being civilized is so overrated.  Just as long as you shape up enough to not disgrace the in-laws.


How could you ever disgrace Dutchies?  :D  :P
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Postby yessamaca » Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:32 pm

Marco wrote:How could you ever disgrace Dutchies?  :D  :P


Apparently by:
- trying to help my schoonmoeder clear the table
- having soup with my coffee instead of appel taart
- screaming like a baby the first time I tried riding a bike (well, first time in 14 years)

Oh, and you haven't seen me try to hop on the back of a bike.  It went much better after a few drinks though.  So I guess that really isn't too much of a disgrace.   :D
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Postby Qinx » Fri Jan 12, 2007 1:53 pm

Smellvin wrote:...It seems that foreigners in the US rarely fully master the US neutral accent and always sound, at least to some extent, foreign.  My goal is to one day speak Dutch well enough to fool a Dutchman into thinking I am his compatriot.


I'll be the first to admit that I still have a foreign accent in my English, especially after saying "Hi" to someone in the US and hearing her say "Oh my god I love your accent".

But it is certainly possible to fool at least some Americans, sincs that's what I did in Ireland. I was waitingfor my then g/f to come out of the bathroom and this American man was waiting for his wife. So we got to talk. Then he asks me where I am from, so I tell him "The Netherlands", after which he goes "... Oh. I was actually expecting one of the (United) states." :-)

Ofcourse, maybe he was just being polite, although he was telling me earlier that he sometimes had no idea what the Irish were telling him, even when it wasn't gaelic :p
Fouten zie je pas nadat je op "submit" hebt gedurkt.
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Postby Qinx » Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:00 pm

All this talk about accents reminds me of a anecdote a colleague of mine told me when I was working in Sweden. She's French, but lived and worked in Montréal at the time. She was in Sweden for a short time to help out in the project I was in. And she told me how when she first came to Montréal, she got to work with French Canadiens. And they commented on her great accent. To which she replied "No. No-no. No. *I* am from France, *YOU* guys have the accent."
Fouten zie je pas nadat je op "submit" hebt gedurkt.
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Postby Jeff » Fri Jan 12, 2007 7:55 pm

Qinx wrote: And she told me how when she first came to Montréal, she got to work with French Canadiens. And they commented on her great accent. To which she replied "No. No-no. No. *I* am from France, *YOU* guys have the accent."



Hahaha
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Postby liu » Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:36 pm

regarding accents - do you care much about them? is it a big deal if i learn the dutch way of pronouncing, although i'll move to flanders (somewhere near antwerpen) ?

the g is my biggest problem (sorry guys but you do get it out of your stomachs, not throats  :D ) and the dutch variant seems easier for me, i don't know why

i try to look at the good part of it - when my flemish boyfriend is upset i just have to say  'goededag' and i get him smiling, if i try 'het gaat heel goed' - he is already laughing  :-?

but his 'g' i will not master soon and even he says it's ok i fear the day i'll face other belgians and i'll have to speak to them every day
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Postby Quetzal » Thu Jan 25, 2007 7:45 pm

liu wrote:regarding accents - do you care much about them? is it a big deal if i learn the dutch way of pronouncing, although i'll move to flanders (somewhere near antwerpen) ?

the g is my biggest problem (sorry guys but you do get it out of your stomachs, not throats  :D ) and the dutch variant seems easier for me, i don't know why

i try to look at the good part of it - when my flemish boyfriend is upset i just have to say  'goededag' and i get him smiling, if i try 'het gaat heel goed' - he is already laughing  :-?

but his 'g' i will not master soon and even he says it's ok i fear the day i'll face other belgians and i'll have to speak to them every day


If you're gonna live in Flanders, obviously speaking Dutch the Flemish way will be best. Though I don't think it matters that much... your accent will gradually change as you learn better Dutch while living here anyway.
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Postby val bonnema » Mon Jan 29, 2007 1:59 am

yessamaca wrote:
Marco wrote:How could you ever disgrace Dutchies?  :D  :P


Apparently by:
- trying to help my schoonmoeder clear the table
- having soup with my coffee instead of appel taart
- screaming like a baby the first time I tried riding a bike (well, first time in 14 years)

Oh, and you haven't seen me try to hop on the back of a bike.  It went much better after a few drinks though.  So I guess that really isn't too much of a disgrace.   :D



OHH I had to laugh. I also did almost the same thing. I insisted on helping clear the dishes after coffie.  My husband asked me.. "What are you doing?" I told him that I was just helping clear the table... and then I noticed the strange looks. So I swallowed my embarrassment and replied.. "in my country we help clear the table as a way of showing our appreciation. It's considered good manners."  OK ok.. so I always didnt help Mom clear the table... but I thought I bluffed real well. HeHeHe
Kwark on potatoes.. tastes like sour cream to me, and vinegar on fries, lemon juice sprinkled on fish... they look at me weird. Say "eewwww thats nasty".. I say, hey.. U guys eat raw fish, and put peanut butter on chicken..... dont tell me "Ewwww"
And the bicycle part... well.. I am a big lady and it has been 20 years or more since I rode a bike. But.. I did it anyway. I almost ran over my husband and another time almost ended up in a canal... But I still got to where I was going. :evil:  But my excuse for my poor driving was.. "I have a broken tail bone."  I really do... so I didnt really lie... in a kinda, sorta, not much way... hahaha
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Postby Vicky » Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:56 am

Hi there,

I didn't understand what was wrong with cleaning the table after dinner?  :-o  My schoonmoeder wasn't suprised and didn't object me helping her with that. When I stayed at her place (unfortunately she passed away last year) it was normal that I did the dishes because she cooked. Of course eating habits were also different, like they eat first all vegetables and only them meat. We eat them together. I never tried biking in NL since I havent' done that for ages in my own country. And I think I'll experience the same you as you. :o

Cheers,

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Postby yessamaca » Mon Jan 29, 2007 1:23 pm

My husband told me that trying to help clear the table is like saying that you don't think the hostess can take care of her own home.  I guess I can see how it kinda makes sense, it's just not something I would think of on my own.  I feel like I'm being lazy or rude when I don't help out.  I think my mother-in-law and I have come to a kind of understand about it though.  I help her take things to the kitchen but stay away from the dishwasher.  At her birthday party she even let me help take out platters of food!  She's good at making me feel like part of the family.

Ohhhh, Val Bonnema, I had forgotten about the food combinations thing!  I love vinegar on fries and lemon on fish too.  I am currently in a ketchup on my fries phase.  That got some very strange looks.  Especially one night when we were out with a bunch of my husband's friends.  We went to a snack shop after dancing for several hours.  I got fries covered in ketchup and most everyone else had fries with mayo and peanut sauce.  One of the guys told me how odd the ketchup looked on my fries.  I told him I liked it because it looked so much like blood.  He looked at my food then at his own and said, "yeah, I like mayo and peanut sauce on my fries because it looks like...um...nevermind."  I'll never forget the look of shock from my mother-in-law when I said I had a peanut butter and jelly sandwich for lunch.  Pindakaas AND jam?!  I had to check if I'd grown a second head or something from the way she was looking at me.

Val, you seem to have a great way of bluffing your way out of embarrassing situations!  I am impressed.   :D

Jess
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Postby Vicky » Mon Jan 29, 2007 4:30 pm

One more thing I used to do at my Dutch mother-in-law's: strijken. I like ironing and she didn't so it was a good deal. For the rest she did all herself. I really miss her, she was a great schoonmoeder and a wonderful oma for my daughter. No, she was my 2nd mother.

Well, I think we should move last few messages to another section about Dutch culture and habits, no? :P

Groetjes,

Vicky
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Postby yessamaca » Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:33 pm

Vicky,

I'm so sorry to hear about your schoonmoeder.  It such a special thing to get along with your spouse's family so well.  

I think these messages can stay in this section as long as you read them out loud in a really strong accent.   :wink:

Jess
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Postby Vicky » Tue Jan 30, 2007 6:01 am

Jess,

Do you mean reading loud in English with Dutch accent?  :P  That would be impossible for me because since English isn't my native language  :-D

Shall we re-write all postings in Dutch? Joke  :D

Groetjes,

Vicky
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