Please help me with "UI"

[destinyfun]

I know perhaps you've already dsicussed this already here but I desperately need help on how to pronounce "UI". I've been hearing it from different sources and the more I hear it the more it confuses me (I have a mix of belgian, south Netherlands and Northern Netherlands friends so perhaps this is a source of confusion). I listened to various voice recordings on the internet to try and arrive to the correct pronunciation but I don't think I'm there yet.

Please tell me to which extent do you agree or disagree with the following:

The Dutch 'ui' is different from the Flemish 'UI'. For me the Dutch UI seems easier to imitate as it resembles the sound 'ou' in 'shout'. Do you agree that the dutch word 'uit' has a similar sound to the end of the english word "shout"? The flemish 'uit' sounds more like the english word 'ate' but can't really put my finger on it.

Anway what's important for me is an 'ui' sound which is understandable to both Flemish and Dutch and which I can reasonably imitate as a foreginer. Any tips or tricks? I really appreciate any help.

Thanks

[Grytolle]

The Dutch 'ui' is different from the Flemish 'UI'. For me the Dutch UI seems easier to imitate as it resembles the sound 'ou' in 'shout'. Do you agree that the dutch word 'uit' has a similar sound to the end of the english word "shout"? The flemish 'uit' sounds more like the english word 'ate' but can't really put my finger on it.

It resembles the English sound more than the Flemish does, but it still certainly isn't the same. If you'd use the English sound, it wouldn't sound right, or atleast it wouldn't be regarded as standard prononciation.

The sound is normally transcripted [œy] in pronounciation guides, but in modern Dutch the first element of the diphton sounds a bit more a-like, perhaps [ʌy] (there's also a version with a j-element instead of a w-element). There is also Poldernederlands which is evolving to a pronounciation identical to the English one. You probably shouldn't try to adapt that, but a person with more insight of the Dutch situation could probably advise you better.

In Flemish news reader pronounciation (which you try to imitate in formal speech) they stick to [œy] or [œɪ], but normal people say either [œ:] (monophtongised) or [œj] (West-Flemish pronounciation; they normally pronounce ui [y] in their dialects, the easiest way get close to standard Dutch pronounciation is saying their short u [œ], followed by a j). This of course only applies to supraregional colloquial speech - in the dialects the phoneme is pronounced very differently.

Edit: In standard Dutch spoken by Flemish people, [œɪ] is used a lot more than [œy], since it has more resemblance to [œ:]/[œj]. So for Standard Dutch with Flemish pronounciation, I'd recommend [œɪ] which is acceptable in all situations. Then again, you probably want to learn Dutch Dutch like most people...