Zijn vs. hebben

[firefly315]

Hi everybody,
I agree with Firefly, memorizing which verbs take zijn is probably the easiest way. If you're forced to guess, guess hebben since I think there are more with hebben and people will still be able to understand you, you'll get corrected, and you'll make fewer mistakes over time.
Reflexive verbs are only those verbs that take 'myself, himself, yourself" etc. I have melted the chocolate is not reflexive. I hurt myself is an example of a reflexive verb in English. Dutch seems to have even more verbs that need to be reflexive to be grammatical. In English, I can realize something, but in Dutch ik realiseer me" is right and it's wrong without the me.

Hoi Saartje,
Thanks for that clarification .

As for forgetting keys, yeah, I agree with Firefly, I forgot my keys is what we usually say.
I have forgotten my keys doesn't seem wrong to me though but I can't quite figure out when I'd say it.

I don’t think that I’d say it either.

The use of the perfect tenses also seems to be regional, so I might use it more often than somebody from a different region.

I think you’re right about different regions --- or even cities, in my experience. I heard people overuse the perfect tenses in the small city about an hour away from Boston, in which I grew up a lot because only some people were college-bound. I heard that a lot in the hallways at high school. However, I hear people overuse it less in the better parts of Boston.

I think I'd be more likely to say have forgotten when I forget something permanently. Oh no! I've forgotten all of my Dutch! and not when I forgot to bring something such as my wallet or keys.
Groetjes,

Yeah, I agree.

Groetjes,

Cathleen

[andreengels]

One more about zijn vs. hebben: When using the passive voice, "zijn" is used. This comes from "zijn geworden", but "geworden" is always dropped. Thus (because this is about Dutch not English grammar, I'm skipping over the use of ing-forms):

Ik lees het boek - I read the book
Ik heb het boek gelezen - I have read the book
Het book wordt gelezen - The book is read
Het boek is gelezen - The book has been read

This might be related to the use for "zijn" for ergative verbs: Ergative verbs in meaning are quite closely connected to verbs in passive voice. It also is one more reason to use "hebben" when you really don't know: Not only is "hebben" much more common, it also cannot be mistaken for another construct.

[Bedtimestorynyc]

Hoi BedtimestoryNYC,
.....

Edit: I just realized that I think you're not at the very beginning of studying Dutch, but this list of verbs is good to have anyway, so that you can learn how to conjugate even more verbs, and the verb book I mentioned in my last post in this thread is still really helpful --- and I'm an intermediate in Dutch (self-taught, and I started over 5 years ago. I've never had a formal class in a classroom) ---as well as online help from people on this forum and other resources. How long have you been learning Dutch?

Hi firefly. Sorry took me a few days to respond.
I've been learning Dutch for exactly one year. Yes I do know a lot of verbs. And, most of the verbs you listed, I already know (besides many others), but thank you for listing them anyway. I am also teaching myself. My text book is "Help! Kunt u mij helpen?" (it's all in Dutch.... itcomes in 3 volumes: vol.2 "Help! Kunt u mij even helpen?", vol.3 "Help! Zal ik u even helpen?) and my dictionary is Routeledge (light blue book). I also look up google translate, this forum, and a couple other resources. So I am on Les 10, where the auxiliary verbs are started to be touched upon as far as learning rules, for now just a few examples were given to remember (the basic ones, i'm guessing in order to know that it is perfect tense, and that it needs to be used for events in the past), meaning that, in the book, it was not at all discussed in detail, certainly not the way it's being discussed here. I have what I like to call a pretty solid beginner's vocabulary. But right now the real fun starts, with those auxiliary verbs and stuff. It's complicated, but it's all part of fun. I can't wait to learn and have it imprinted in my memory.

It is complicated, I am trying to absorb everything said here, and apply it to different examples.

[firefly315]

Hoi BedtimestoryNYC,
.....

Edit: I just realized that I think you're not at the very beginning of studying Dutch, but this list of verbs is good to have anyway, so that you can learn how to conjugate even more verbs, and the verb book I mentioned in my last post in this thread is still really helpful --- and I'm an intermediate in Dutch (self-taught, and I started over 5 years ago. I've never had a formal class in a classroom) ---as well as online help from people on this forum and other resources. How long have you been learning Dutch?

Hi firefly. Sorry took me a few days to respond.
I've been learning Dutch for exactly one year. Yes I do know a lot of verbs. And, most of the verbs you listed, I already know (besides many others), but thank you for listing them anyway. I am also teaching myself. My text book is "Help! Kunt u mij helpen?" (it's all in Dutch.... itcomes in 3 volumes: vol.2 "Help! Kunt u mij even helpen?", vol.3 "Help! Zal ik u even helpen?) and my dictionary is Routeledge (light blue book). I also look up google translate, this forum, and a couple other resources. So I am on Les 10, where the auxiliary verbs are started to be touched upon as far as learning rules, for now just a few examples were given to remember (the basic ones, i'm guessing in order to know that it is perfect tense, and that it needs to be used for events in the past), meaning that, in the book, it was not at all discussed in detail, certainly not the way it's being discussed here. I have what I like to call a pretty solid beginner's vocabulary. But right now the real fun starts, with those auxiliary verbs and stuff. It's complicated, but it's all part of fun. I can't wait to learn and have it imprinted in my memory.

It is complicated, I am trying to absorb everything said here, and apply it to different examples.

Hoi BedtimestoryNYC,

That’s O.K. Don’t worry about it. I didn’t realize that you’d been learning Dutch for a year. Yeah, self-taught (even with a good textbook) can be hard, sometimes --- but until you get to the equivalent of Dutch 3, you can do it --- although, at that point, I started to post here a lot. I asked about the passive voice on this forum a few weeks ago, and I’ve absorbed a lot of those great explanations.

My next goal is learning separable verbs better. It’s definitely time to do that!

Your book sounds cool. I’ve heard of it. I use Bablefish, instead of Google Translate, as needed --- I don’t overuse it. Most of the time I look up words in my dictionary or ask how to say something in Dutch, depending on the situation. You Tube is a wicked good resource for movies in Dutch.

I know what you mean by “a pretty solid beginner's vocabulary.” I think that’s how I would have described my Dutch vocabulary after having studied Dutch for one year. Now, I’m somewhere in the intermediate category. I think my vocabulary is at a very good “medium” intermediate level, but my grammar still counts as intermediate, and I understand some really hard grammatical constructions well. Yeah, you’re at a really interesting part of your study of Dutch.

Groetjes,

Cathleen