Need a few clarifications

[Avidlearner]

There are a few things I am confused about. I'd include print screens, but I can't paste the images onto anything other than Microsoft Word.

M = man
w - woman
G - girl
B - boy
OM - old man
OW - old woman

Can someone tell me why the following (bolded) are different?

A1)M to W: 'Waar kom jij vandaan?'
W: 'Ik kom uit de Verenigde Staten'

A2) M to M: 'Waar komt u vandaan?'
M: 'Ik kom uit Egypte'

A3) B to girls: 'Waar komen jullie vandaan?'

B1) B to OW: 'Heeft u het koud?'
OW: 'Ja, ik heb het koud.'

B2) M to M and W: 'Heeft u dorst?'

B3) B and G to W: 'Heb jij het warm?'

B4) W to B and G: 'Hebben juillie honger?'


C1) M to G: 'Hoi Sara. Hoe gaat het met jou?'
'Goed, dank u. Hoe gaat het met u, meneer De Vries?'
'Goed, dank je.'

D1) W to W: 'Hallo mevrouw De Vries. Hoe gaat het met u?'
'Goed, dank u.'

D2) W to G: 'Hoi Sara, hoe gaat met jou?
Goed, dank u.

E1) G to OW: 'Hoi oma.'
'Hallo Maaike. Hoe gaat het met jou?'
'Goed, dank u.Hoe gaat het met u?'

I am completely confused.

[ngonyama]

You use jij/jou and jullie to speak to people you are very familiar with, your friends, your buddies. When you speak to someone you do not know or a superior, someone of an older generation you use u. The latter is used for both singular and for plural. Jij/jou is only singular, jullie is only plural.

[ngonyama]

There are a few things I am confused about. I'd include print screens, but I can't paste the images onto anything other than Microsoft Word.

M = man
w - woman
G - girl
B - boy
OM - old man
OW - old woman

Can someone tell me why the following (bolded) are different?

A1)M to W: 'Waar kom jij vandaan?'
W: 'Ik kom uit de Verenigde Staten'

Apparantly the man and the woman are good friends: they use "jij". Notice that it is "jij komt" but in inversion it becomes "kom jij" (drop the -t)

A2) M to M: 'Waar komt u vandaan?'
M: 'Ik kom uit Egypte'

These men are not on first name basis and use "u". Here inversion does not matter
A3) B to girls: 'Waar komen jullie vandaan?'

Good friends, plural: jullie

B1) B to OW: 'Heeft u het koud?'
OW: 'Ja, ik heb het koud.'
the expression is "het koud hebben" to be cold. The "het" is a dummy without real meaning

B2) M to M and W: 'Heeft u dorst?'

Being polite and using "u" it does not matter that you speak to more than one person

B3) B and G to W: 'Heb jij het warm?'

Talking to one friend: jij
B4) W to B and G: 'Hebben juillie honger?'
Talking to two friends: jullie

C1) M to G: 'Hoi Sara. Hoe gaat het met jou?'
A single friend: jij becomes jou after a preposition like "met" or as an object

'Goed, dank u. Hoe gaat het met u, meneer De Vries?'
being polite: use "u". It does not change after "met".
'Goed, dank je.'
Apparently mr de Vries is talking back to someone much younger or lower in rank somehow: he answers with "je". Je is a weak form of either jij or jou, used when the emphasis is on some other part of the sentence

D1) W to W: 'Hallo mevrouw De Vries. Hoe gaat het met u?'
being polite
'Goed, dank u.'
being polite in return

D2) W to G: 'Hoi Sara, hoe gaat met jou?
talking to a young girl: familiar "jou"
Goed, dank u.
young girl answering an older woman: polite: "u"
E1) G to OW: 'Hoi oma.'
ouch, I would not have dared to speak that way to my grandma.... but times are changing
'Hallo Maaike. Hoe gaat het met jou?'
no need to be polite to you granddaughter! Jij! Jou!
'Goed, dank u.Hoe gaat het met u?'
Despite the rather familiar "hoi" the girl addresses grandma properly with "u".

I am completely confused.

I hope it is a bit clearer?

[andreengels]

You use jij/jou and jullie to speak to people you are very familiar with, your friends, your buddies. When you speak to someone you do not know or a superior, someone of an older generation you use u. The latter is used for both singular and for plural. Jij/jou is only singular, jullie is only plural.

Actually, those uses are shifting (towards a greater use of jij/jullie). The rules as you write them are those that were in use when I was a child (about 30 years ago). Nowadays using 'U' for status is getting out of fashion, it is more a matter of context. "Jij" is used with all people you know personally, not only friends and family members but also direct colleagues. It is not fully accepted yet, so when a new coworker comes in, it is often one of the first things that is mentioned, is often what the policy is in this respect, but "jij" seems more common than "U" - at least in the types of environment that I tend to frequent.

"U" is nowadays used in more formal settings, and to people you do not actually know (nor are getting to know at that moment). So it will be used towards unknown people you meet in the streets, when you are checking out in a shop or in a business meeting with people from another company or members of another department that you don't see every week. One consequence in this shift of usage, is that the usage is becoming much more symmetrical - if I address you using either "U" or "jij", you will probably use the same form when addressing me. The exception to this are still children, who are addressed with "jij" in every setting, though things have changed in allowing them to use "jij" to address adults in personal settings.

[Avidlearner]

(Going to try my first attempt at Dutch. Warning - will be very broken and mix of English and Dutch)

Dank u! Uw clarifications heb help mijn understanding. (I'm getting there!)

[ngonyama]

(Going to try my first attempt at Dutch. Warning - will be very broken and mix of English and Dutch)

Dank u! Uw clarifications hebuitleg heeft mij geholpen help dit beter te begrijpen mijn understanding. (I'm getting there! Of course you will: keep trying!)

[Avidlearner]

I've got another one I need clarification with. What is the difference between 'geen' and 'niet'? Also, what's the difference between 'zijn' and 'zij'?

If no one minds, I'll post all my queries here. That way, I only have to refer to this one thread when I forget something.

[Quetzal]

I've got another one I need clarification with. What is the difference between 'geen' and 'niet'? Also, what's the difference between 'zijn' and 'zij'?

If no one minds, I'll post all my queries here. That way, I only have to refer to this one thread when I forget something.

For that first one, the short version is this: "geen" means "not a", while "niet" simply means "not". The somewhat longer version is that "geen" is the negation of indefinite nouns, whether they have an indefinite article or not; for instance, "Ik heb geen geld".

The second one, you may have to specify... which "zijn" are you talking about? The verb (to be) or the possessive (his)? "Zij" is the stressed form of both "she" and "they" (you have to look at the ending of the verb to tell which of the two is meant in any given sentence). The unstressed form, which is more generally used, is "ze" for both.

[Avidlearner]

I've got another one I need clarification with. What is the difference between 'geen' and 'niet'? Also, what's the difference between 'zijn' and 'zij'?

If no one minds, I'll post all my queries here. That way, I only have to refer to this one thread when I forget something.

For that first one, the short version is this: "geen" means "not a", while "niet" simply means "not". The somewhat longer version is that "geen" is the negation of indefinite nouns, whether they have an indefinite article or not; for instance, "Ik heb geen geld".

The second one, you may have to specify... which "zijn" are you talking about? The verb (to be) or the possessive (his)? "Zij" is the stressed form of both "she" and "they" (you have to look at the ending of the verb to tell which of the two is meant in any given sentence). The unstressed form, which is more generally used, is "ze" for both.

Hallo Quetzal,
I am confused about when to use 'zijn' as a verb.
Sorry about the lateness.

dank u.

[Quetzal]

Hallo Quetzal,
I am confused about when to use 'zijn' as a verb.
Sorry about the lateness.

dank u.

Okay. "Zijn" is the Dutch verb for "to be", I take it you know that. As for when to use it, I take it this is really a more general question about when to use infinitives? The answer is that - with some exceptions, but those are fairly advanced stuff, I doubt those are what you were thinking of - you use it in the same places and ways you'd use it in English. But in English it's often not that clear when you're using an infinitive, because they look so much like a conjugated verb.

The conjugation of the verb is as follows:

Ik ben - I am
Jij bent - you are (singular) (note: when, for whatever reason, the verb precedes "jij", the T is dropped and it becomes "ben jij" - this is a general rule in Dutch verbs)
Hij is - he is
Zij is - she is
Het is - it is
Wij zijn - we are
Jullie zijn - you are (plural)
Zij zijn - they are

And then you should remember that "jij", "wij" and "zij" (both the singular and the plural one) have an alternative version ("je", "we" and "ze" respectively). This is not the case for "hij".

I don't know if this is very helpful, you'll have to be more specific with your questions if it isn't...

[fabriciocarraro]

Quetzal,

You dutch use more "Jij/Wij/Zij" or "Je/We/Ze"? Because in some books they explain this in a way, in others, in another way. I quite get that you use "Jij/..." when you want to emphasize the pronoun, but is there a situation when it's obligatory?

Also, you said that "Jij bent..." becomes "Ben jij...", right? It also works for the "Je"? Like "Je bent..." becomes "Ben je...", or no? And for the "U"?

Dank je wel!

[Quetzal]

Quetzal,

You dutch use more "Jij/Wij/Zij" or "Je/We/Ze"? Because in some books they explain this in a way, in others, in another way. I quite get that you use "Jij/..." when you want to emphasize the pronoun, but is there a situation when it's obligatory?

Also, you said that "Jij bent..." becomes "Ben jij...", right? It also works for the "Je"? Like "Je bent..." becomes "Ben je...", or no? And for the "U"?

Dank je wel!

I think on the whole we use je/we/ze more than jij/wij/zij. As you say the difference is about emphasizing the pronoun or not, but in some cases you don't really get a choice and have to use jij/wij/zij. For instance when you're making a comparison: "ik ben hier en jij bent daar" - because of the contrast between "ik" and "jij", it's just not possible to write "je" here.

Ben jij or ben je, yes, both. But not for "u". "U bent" or "bent u", the T remains.

[Avidlearner]

Need clarification for 'vind/t/en' and 'mooi'.

'Hij vindt dit concert neit mooi.'
'Hij vindt dit concert mooi.'

Thanks!

[Quetzal]

Need clarification for 'vind/t/en' and 'mooi'.

'Hij vindt dit concert niet mooi.'
'Hij vindt dit concert mooi.'

Thanks!

"Vinden" is "to find", literally, but we use it a bit differently in cases like this one... here it means something more like "consider": "he considers this concert to be beautiful", or, to phrase it more normally, "he thinks this concert is beautiful".

"Mooi" is just "beautiful" or "pretty".