uitkijken

[woordvolgorde]
According to many, the word order is one of the hardest parts of the Dutch language. If you are also struggling with subordinate clauses, inversion and the like, this is the place to be.
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k.tihanyi
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uitkijken

Post by k.tihanyi » Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:14 pm

My question is related to the following type sentences:

Kijk uit voor die fietsende man!
Kijk uit naar uw reactie!
Ik kijk uit naar de bioscoop.

And why not:

Kijk uit voor die fietsende man uit!
Kijk naar uw reactie uit!
Ik kijk naar de bioscoop uit.

?

Thanks a lot

ngonyama
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Re: uitkijken

Post by ngonyama » Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:35 am

k.tihanyi wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:14 pm
My question is related to the following type sentences:

Kijk uit voor die fietsende man!
I suppose because it is an imperative

Kijk uit naar uw reactie!
Ik kijk uit naar de bioscoop.
These two phrases do not make much sense.
What are you trying to say: I am looking forward to visiting the cinema?
Ik kijk ernaar uit om naar de film te gaan?



And why not:

Kijk uit voor die fietsende man uit!
With twice uit it is wrong, but
Kijk voor die fietsende man uit!
would be a valid sentence, although because it is a command the first version is more urgent and therefore more common. Kijk uit! is an alarm signal

Kijk naar uw reactie uit!
Do you mean: Ik kijk naar uw reactie uit? -- that would be a fine sentence. Ik kijk uit naar uw reactie is fine too, the emphasis is a bit different, although hard to say
Ik kijk naar de bioscoop uit.
Neither on them make much sense to me. Naar die bioscoop uitkijken could be used when you are driving around looking for the cinema, I suppose:

E.g. Passenger to driver:
Let jij nou maar op het verkeer, dan kijk ik wel naar die bioscoop uit.
Why don't you concentrate on your driving then I'll look out for that cinema

In general there is often a 'standard' word order, but other orders do exist. They usually convey a bit different emphasis or they are stylistically a bit different. E.g normally you;d say:

Ik ga morgen met de bus mee
But don't be surprised to hear:
Ik ga mee met de bus morgen
In the latter case there is a lot more emphasis on the fact that you have actually decided to come along after all. The statements "met de bus" and "morgen" are just afterthoughts, reminders / clarifiers like: "I'm coming along! You know, tomorrow! With the bus, I mean.

?

Thanks a lot

k.tihanyi
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Re: uitkijken

Post by k.tihanyi » Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:41 am

Thanks really a lot!

The two "uit"s in the first sentence is of course my banal "copy and paste" mistake.

I took the original sentences effectively from the internet (the first one comes from a grammar site, but there the topic was different). Your explanation seems to me very logical and one feels this effect even from his own. But why couldn't I find a similar one in the several grammatical sites (neither in "dutchgrammar.com" and neither in his "How flexible is a Dutch sentence" section - http://www.dutchgrammar.com/en/?n=WordOrder.66 !) and grammar books? Or was I only not indefatigable enough? The poor dutch student can never know when he/she makes a mistake!

Thank you very much again and kind regards

estarling
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Re: uitkijken

Post by estarling » Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:42 pm

k.tihanyi wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:41 am
But why couldn't I find a similar one in the several grammatical sites (neither in "dutchgrammar.com" and neither in his "How flexible is a Dutch sentence" section - http://www.dutchgrammar.com/en/?n=WordOrder.66 !) and grammar books? Or was I only not indefatigable enough? The poor dutch student can never know when he/she makes a mistake!
Yeah, perhaps this is the beauty of being student: to wonder, to ask, to search for...
...until you get the confirmation of the answer what you already might have known or expected. :-)
Frustrating? No, I see not a reason why. You must be happy for your achievement.

Best regards.
***** De onderlijning van fouten en de kritiek over deze tekst zijn welkom.

k.tihanyi
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Re: uitkijken

Post by k.tihanyi » Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:41 pm

Hi Mr. Estarling,

Thanks for your philosophical, meditative answer.

But sincerely I would be more happy to find a nice and clear rule for example also for this case. Otherwise I can create my own nice and easily complet false ideas.

Would it be possible for example to complete with this type of case the dutchgrammar.com (or to include some reference to some eventually existing rule)? This yes that would be an achievement!

Thank you again! Best regards

estarling
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Re: uitkijken

Post by estarling » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:31 am

Hello K.

The case is simple. When you follow a Dutch language course in a school or university you get the support of your good teacher. But here online you get an unconditional support from these wonderful volunteer language experts. ''Chatting'' with them it is already a great achievement. Belive me! :-)
***** De onderlijning van fouten en de kritiek over deze tekst zijn welkom.

k.tihanyi
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Re: uitkijken

Post by k.tihanyi » Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:14 am

Hi Mr. Estarling,

Chatting with "these wonderful volunteer language experts and receive their unconditional support" is really wonderful. If only I could arrive to such a level in my language knowledge!

And which makes especially fine chatting with you personally is that you go beyond the linguistic aspects, better to say you make a very nice connection between the linguistic and the emotional aspects. A particular thank for that!

But at the same time I think that it would it be very nice to be able to have a relationship between the volunteer and the professional language experts. Ngonyama's answer is very clear, very insightful and I am very grateful for that. I'm asking if would it not possible to dedicate a section for this case (and eventually for other similar cases) within the "How flexible is the Dutch language" chapter (http://www.dutchgrammar.com/en/?n=WordOrder.66) and if it is a case to create also a table similar to the one present in that chapter (http://www.dutchgrammar.com/en/?n=WordOrder.67)? Effectively I have difficulties with the word order in some other cases too.

Thanks again for you, very patient and helpful volunteer language experts!

ngonyama
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Re: uitkijken

Post by ngonyama » Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:47 am

k.tihanyi wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:14 am
Hi Mr. Estarling,

Chatting with "these wonderful volunteer language experts and receive their unconditional support" is really wonderful. If only I could arrive to such a level in my language knowledge!

And which makes especially fine chatting with you personally is that you go beyond the linguistic aspects, better to say you make a very nice connection between the linguistic and the emotional aspects. A particular thank for that!

But at the same time I think that it would it be very nice to be able to have a relationship between the volunteer and the professional language experts. Ngonyama's answer is very clear, very insightful and I am very grateful for that. I'm asking if would it not possible to dedicate a section for this case (and eventually for other similar cases) within the "How flexible is the Dutch language" chapter (http://www.dutchgrammar.com/en/?n=WordOrder.66) and if it is a case to create also a table similar to the one present in that chapter (http://www.dutchgrammar.com/en/?n=WordOrder.67)? Effectively I have difficulties with the word order in some other cases too.

Thanks again for you, very patient and helpful volunteer language experts!
Bieneke wrote this site -not me- and I have not seen here for quite a while here, so I doubt that your request will be answered.

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